Conversation with Phil Oseas 4/2/09

[Derwin]

Well, Phil just called me back, and I just got off the phone with him after about a half hour conversation.

The main thrust of the discussion was that Persu is still alive and actively trying to produce this vehicle. Here are the highlights of what I can share...

--Persu has a team of engineers working on the chassis. As many of you may know, they cannot simply use the chassis of the Carver since it is not adequate for American roads. The new chassis they are working on will be customized specifically for the North American market, and this is not an easy task, but they are making progress.

--There is a whole lot going on behind the scenes, but due to investor concerns, along with other issues, they are not in a position to release any details yet. One thing that CAN be shared is that Howard is managing the work being done with lobbyists in select states to make sure the laws will be "friendly" toward this particular vehicle, and others like it. This is in regards to helmet laws, etc.

--The specs given on the site have been verified by propulsion engineers, and are true as of the time they were made posted.

--Persu will qualify for the XPrize. Plain and simple.

***********

OK. That was the main "jist" of our conversation. Phil was incredibly nice on the phone, and wanted to reassure everybody that progress is being made, and that all is well with the project. He went on to emphasis that this is an incredible undertaking, and that something like this takes a whole lot of work, and a lot of time. They are attempting to produce a "production vehicle", and there are many aspects of doing this that most people are simply unaware of. It's quite easy to build a "one-off" vehicle out of your garage. But what Persu is attempting to do is design and then manufacture a vehicle that will be mass-produced and made available at a reasonable price.

One thing that I can say pertaining to the Xprize (and this is MY opinion), is that Persu can easily qualify by simply entering a vehicle with a larger battery, etc. which will meet the requirements. Such a vehicle may cost $35,000 or $40,000 or who knows! But it would qualify and be a "production capable" vehicle. Now, that is NOT what Persu wants to actually bring to market, though. They want (again in MY opinion) to bring a vehicle to market that will fit the budgets of most people. A vehicle that runs around $20,000 to $25,000. So, they would just enter the one vehicle in the XPrize, and then actually go into production with another model with less expensive components. Now, listen, I don't personally know this to be the case, but it makes sense to me. Take it for what it is.... my opinion.

Anyway, I am happy that Phil took the time to speak with me. It sounds like they are very busy behind the scenes, and that engineers are constantly working. But with Ian gone, they just don't have the "front man" communicating with people anymore on a weekly basis. This may be for the better, though, in my opinion.

As a result of this call, my enthusiasm for this product has been cranked up a notch or two. I hope yours has also.



Derwin

[AZEqualizer]

Well done Derwin. Sometimes it is hard for Companies to get their head up to do something than take another breath. It was commendable of you to get some info from them between breaths, while they weren't submerged.

[RAN]

Puleeeeeeeeeeeeaze

The chassis is the first thing you need to build. So, you're telling me that Persu, excuse me, VV, did no work on the chassis? Carver already has a chassis. It may need to be modified for the N. American market, but they're making it sound like they're having to conceptualize and build this thing bolt by bolt from the ground up. That's BS.

No mention of the drivetrain at all. I guess that makes sense in a "Persu" sort of way. No need to worry about that if you don't have a chassis to put it in.

The body will have to be designed from the ground up too; after all, it has to fit on the chassis.

Then they had to conceptualize the whole idea of a three-wheeled tilting man-wide vehicle, since obviously, one has never been built before. What a formidible job ahead of them! (yes that's extreme sarcasm)

Scott's job description, IIRC, was to communicate between the company and Everyone Else. He hasn't done anything to the website, except take down the forum, so that takes up zero percent of his time. He hasn't commmunicated anything to us, so that takes up zero percent of his time. There haven't been any press releases from Persu that I'm aware of in the past 6-7 months, so that takes up zero percent of his time. So WTF has he been doing all this time?

Derwin, you go on swallowing these people's BS all you want. I had to go get a gas mask just to finish this post, the smell was so bad.

At the rate they're going, they'll have an Alpha prototype by about 2014.

Suspension of disbelief is for watching TV shows and movies... not for running a forum.

I'm totally enthusiastic about the vehicle. I just have no faith in the company to bring it to market.

[willk]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/...ef=mpstoryview

[RAN]

the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.

[Derwin]

Derwin, you go on swallowing these people's BS all you want. I had to go get a gas mask just to finish this post, the smell was so bad.

At the rate they're going, they'll have an Alpha prototype by about 2014.

Suspension of disbelief is for watching TV shows and movies... not for running a forum.

I'm totally enthusiastic about the vehicle. I just have no faith in the company to bring it to market.

RAN,

I admire you, and I respect your opinion. But I don't understand where you are getting that I am "swallowing" anything from Persu. I'm simply reporting what I have been told, that's it.

The reason I am more enthusiastic now is simply because I got to hear "from the horses mouth" that they are still actively working on the vehicle, and have no intention of "selling out" or closing their doors (as some have suggested).

As for when they will have an alpha prototype ready....Well, you may be right, RAN! It may not be ready until 2014! I have no clue. I think they'll have something long before then, but we just don't know. They aren't telling us, and that's their prerogative.

I haven't suspended disbelief, either. I just don't take a view one way or the other on the subject. I am incredibly HOPEFUL that they get this thing into production, that's it. What's wrong with that?

You have chosen to take hold the opinion that this company will never bring the Persu Hybrid to market. Well, I have not come to that conclusion yet. Talk to me this time next year, and maybe I'll have another opinion. But for now, I still believe that this company will succeed in developing this vehicle AND bringing it to market. Could I be proven wrong? You bet! But only TIME will tell the story in this case.

Until then, I am cautiously optimistic about the Persu Hybrid coming to market under the leadership of Howard and the Persu team. I guess we'll see, although not soon enough for some!

Derwin

[cobraphx]

The body will have to be designed from the ground up too; after all, it has to fit on the chassis.

Ran, I think you have this backwards. The Persu is a panel on frame design, not a unibody or ladder frame design. From my understanding, the Persu is a birdcage style tubular frame with non-structural plastic composite body panels attached. Until you have the outer body panels designed, you can't design a proper frame (chassis) to support those panels. Unlike a traditional vehicle where the unibody is the chassis with a few extra panels attached for the front clip.

In the Persu, there will be structural members either side of the windshield over the top of the vehicle, there will have to be a structural member at the front and rear of the door, etc... Until you know the width and shape of the door opening, placement, width and contour of the windshield as well as many other things dictated by the body shape and configuration, you can't design the frame to fit the body. The exception for the Persu is the engine pod, the structure of the engine pod panels isn't tied closely to the body panels like it is in the tilting passenger compartment.

Again, this is my understanding of the structural design as mapped out by VV, maybe it has changed and they are throwing out the body design and starting over as you suggest.

[elendel]

Specs vs. X-Prize, as Derwin mentioned:

One thing that I can say pertaining to the Xprize (and this is MY opinion), is that Persu can easily qualify by simply entering a vehicle with a larger battery, etc. which will meet the requirements. Such a vehicle may cost $35,000 or $40,000 or who knows! But it would qualify and be a "production capable" vehicle. Now, that is NOT what Persu wants to actually bring to market, though. They want (again in MY opinion) to bring a vehicle to market that will fit the budgets of most people. A vehicle that runs around $20,000 to $25,000. So, they would just enter the one vehicle in the XPrize, and then actually go into production with another model with less expensive components. Now, listen, I don't personally know this to be the case, but it makes sense to me. Take it for what it is.... my opinion.

Taken one way, it sounds like they are lying. Taken another way it sounds like they are realistic in what they can bring to market vs. what it takes for the x-prize. Also, key wording: They said (according to Derwin) the posted specs were accurate "as of when they were posted." Easily could have changed since to come more in line with x-prize requirements, and they just don't want to publish the new ones.

I doubt any lies were told to Derwin (ok I'm optimistic), they've just realized the danger of telling too much too soon.

[elendel]

Also, forgot to address:

you have to include the electricity used by the vehicle, which is far less efficient than the gasoline engine

Can you back this up? According to all the efficiency numbers I know, converting electricity->motive power is _much_ more efficient than burning fuel for motive power. A quick google search says combustion engines average 25-30% efficiency while electric motors are on the order of 80-90%. That's the whole reason hybrids make any sense at all. The main efficiency losses come from how the electricity is generated in the first place (see: serial hybrid).

[MVRacing]

I am happy to hear they are still alive and trying!! elendel makes a valid point... the specs could easily have been changed.

I am waiting to see what they come out with for the first X Prize race.