80% fuel efficient engine

[Mike kZ]

Check out this company that claims to have invented an "80% fuel efficient Green Engine". This would make a great ICE motor for the V1

The videos are a must!

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:Perfect_Motor_Corp:Turbocombustion_Engin e


http://tcengine.com/

This is a Single-cylinder Turbocombustion Engine Connected to a Dynamo to generate
electricity. It can triple the gas mileage of a Hybrid Vehicle
http://tcengine.com/sitebuilder/images/TCE_Dynamo-517x395.jpg

[Timon]

All of the following is nice but do they have a working prototype?

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Turbo Combustion Engine Technical Data (http://www.tcengine.com/files/tceanimation.swf)

[RAN]

From what I gleaned from their site, not yet. It's strange to see the whole exterior rotate like that. I'm wondering, for the purpose of powering a genset for a serial hybrid, how this would compare to a micro turbine in terms of size, cost, and efficiency?

[ziggy951]

Holly CRAP. I would HATE to have to change that sparkplug...it better have a 50k mile guarantee and about zero % chance of carbon buildup for crying out loud.






Z

[RAN]

I'd vote for a 100K mile plug myself. Hopefully, with such high efficiency, the plug(s) would burn clean.

Sigh. Another nice idea that'll take 10 years to see.

[westonlgray]

Did anyone ever notice that all of the cool inventions are always 10 years away?

On the efficiency side, I have serious doubts about their 80% fuel efficieny. Is that even theoretically possible? I am not a mechanical engineer, but I though that the most efficient ideal engine was somewhere around 70% with most realizable engines being around 50-60% when you are talking about low speed diesels, etc... does anyone have a background to offer any further explanation?

[Mark Tomlinson]

From what I saw on the site, no, there is no working prototype. Interesting approach as they have engineered this thing completely on the computer, patented it, and are now looking for partners to build it.

That puts the 80% efficiency in doubt in my book. But even 50% is more than twice what the best ICE gets today. And I don't doubt they did some serious modeling to figure it out, so I'm willing to bet they can get 65% at least.

Where I do have concerns is the number of springs, bearings, and seals in the thing. I'm sure the right material choices can reduce wear, but it seems like it will need plenty of maintenance. Probably no more than most engines, but everything requires a complete tear down.

[danbucks]

Their definition of efficiency must lie elsewhere - perhaps they mean *over* a usually 30% efficient ICE?
80% violates the Stirling Cycle theoretical limit:
"The theoretical maximum thermal efficiency of a Stirling Cycle engine operating at a combustion temperature of 2,500°F (1,370°C) would be about 78%. Of course, no one has been able to build a Stirling Cycle engine with anything near that thermal-efficiency"
(I'd have to pull out my college texts to place the final nail in the coffin)

[westonlgray]

Thanks Dan...

The Small Stirling engines that have been built are on the order of 50% efficient. You can make a diesel engine that is more efficient (at least at a constant speed). I definitely wouldn't invest money in that company.

[Mark Tomlinson]

Well, I sent the link to my mechanical engineering brother. He didn't have the time to look at it in depth, but he was impressed with what he saw. He agreed that 80% efficiency sounds impossible for an Otto Cycle (four stroke) engine. But the engineers who put the design together apparently are no idiots - they had to have read the same text books he read. So 80% efficiency is both impossible and probable at the same time. He agreed with my assessment that real world testing will lower the number, but it will be higher, probably much higher, than the 25% seen in conventional ICEs.

But don't bet on seeing it anytime soon. Unless these guys get the attention of a major automaker who's willing to bet on a long shot, the TCE will be regulated to the files of "What Might Have Been".