Experience from a Carver One Owner

[NortonF1]

Hello from Germany!

I am a Carver one owner and was asked from the V1 Forum to visit this Forum, so I copy my story from the V1 Forum here:


My Carver has done 6230 Km (appr. 4000 miles) from 7th of February until 28th of April.

Driving is a lot of fun if You do it right, the carver has no ABS, no ESP and no TC (Traction Control).

That means that if You lose the rear in a Corner (what can happen easily on a slippery road when the turbo comes to life at appr. 2500 RPM) You may NOT countersteer to correct this but You may only lift the throttle which will correct the situation due to the fact that the rar wheels also steer.

Why am I telling You all this?

Because I was with my Carver One to the Nürburgring Nordschleife where the german Motorcycle Magazin "Motorrad" was conducting a motorcycle safety course an my Idea was to integrate a Carver course into these regularly occurring courses because it is DIFFICULT NOT TO COUNTERSTEER!

So I gave the Instructors a 45 minutes briefing what to do and what not, including a detailesd PP Beamer Presentation, starting the next day to instruct the Instructors by taking them as a passenger for one round, letting them drive thereafter, all day it was very wet wheather and a lot of fun driving circles around the motorcycles as You can drift over all three Wheels in these conditions if You know what to do (I have a total experience of about 9000 Km on the Carver one because I had accesss to another Carver one already last Year, and an experience of 15 Years and more than 500 rounds on the Nuerburgring))

As this went without problems I let one instructor drive without a demo ride, and he did one round with no problems, and in the second round - You guessed it - he hit the inside of the curbes at the end of Hatzenbach, and as a Porsche 911 driver he did the wrong thing, countersteer, and then the body comes up and he tipped the Carver over one and a quarter time, coming to rest on the right side.

Luckily he was not hurt and the carver could still be driven, but is damaged all around (can I upload pictures?) and moneywise a total loss.

I am presently waiting for the insurance money, then it will be rebuilt, and I will not let anybody drive it again before thorough training.


Rgds Hans

[Derwin]

Hans,

Great story! I am so very sorry to hear about your Carver being totaled. I bet you were almost crying about it! Hey, please send me all the photo's to my personal email address, and I will upload them to this site so everyone can see them. My address is:

dbeushausen at gmail dot com

Thanks, and Welcome to the Club!

Derwin

[Derwin]

It seems Hans, our newest member from Germany, had a bad experience letting someone drive his Carver. Here is his account, along with some pictures:


...I let one instructor drive without a demo ride, and he did one round with no problems, and in the second round - You guessed it - he hit the inside of the curbes at the end of Hatzenbach, and as a Porsche 911 driver he did the wrong thing, countersteer, and then the body comes up and he tipped the Carver over one and a quarter time, coming to rest on the right side.

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=476&stc=1&d=1213444035

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=477&stc=1&d=1213444035

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=478&stc=1&d=1213444035

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=479&stc=1&d=1213444035

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=480&stc=1&d=1213444035

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=481&stc=1&d=1213444035

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=482&stc=1&d=1213444047

[RAN]

Ouch! :(

Welcome Hans, and thanks for sharing your story!
Some of us were wondering about countersteering; it didn't seem possible to do it, since it would cause the body to come "untilted" in a corner.

The Carver looks tough though.

[MVRacing]

Hans, thanks so much!! Learning NOT to counter steer in a slide... that's going to take some work when I get out to the track =y:

[rogwild]

'Herzlich Willkommen', Hans.
Thanks for joining our group. Great looking Carver (even with the damage). Looks like it 'survived' the rollover pretty well. We should learn much from your vast experience, and perhaps become safer drivers, when the V~1 arrives. Hope you have your Carver One back on the road shortly.

[CelticFlyer]

Hans, thank you very much for sharing your story and your experiences. I'm sorry to hear your Carver was damaged. It is a beautiful vehicle. You mentioned that you're waiting for the insurance money, but why doesn't the man who rolled it pay you for the damage?

[rogwild]

Hans, I hope you had GOOD insurance coverage. Over here in the States, most normal insurance is void (no payment) if the vehicle is used for 'racing' or used on a 'race track'. Besides, CelticFlyer, has a good point; the man who wrecked it, should have HIS insurance pay for the damages HE caused. Best of luck, in a speedy settlement.

[Bulldog]

Hans, what a story and info I am glad to learn about now rather than later! Wishing your Carver a very speedy recovery.

[shooter]

The Nurburgring is considered a toll road I believe in Germany so normal insurance is valid.


I took my full dress cruiser around the ring with the music blaring. Was a fun day.

[shooter]

Welcome Hans. I too have a Carver. Collected it 10th April but was away in South Africa for a couple of weeks in May so have only got 3,600km's on it so far. Have had the back step out a few times and the front go in the wet but as you say, it comes back into line when you lift off the accelerator.

My carver came with a saftey hammer installed so that if you flip it onto the door side, you can break the window to get out!

[MVRacing]

Over here in the States, most normal insurance is void (no payment) if the vehicle is used for 'racing' or used on a 'race track'.

Hi Rogwild,

We've had no problems with coverage on track for "driver training days" =y: As long as there is no door handle to door handle stuff.

[rogwild]

Nice to hear, hope it goes easy for Hans. I got my 'info' second hand from a friend that took his 'Vette to Daytona and put it into the wall, and said the insurance company didn't want to cover it. Don't know the final outcome, was years ago, and he is not in my area. It may just have been his company, I've never checked my policy for any such exclusion, so I'm probably wrong.

[WarpedOne]

>> My carver came with a saftey hammer installed so that if you flip it onto the door side, you can break the window to get out!

LOL! LOL LOL!

As like you haven't done enough damage yet by just fliping it over, go and brake some more of it. With a hammer! No, noone needs two doors... :/

[NortonF1]

@WarpedOne:

Actually in most cases You won´t need the hammer anyway as the Carver One comes standard with a removable hardtop, so You can evacuate throgh the roof, too, or, as long as it isn´t too much damaged it should also be possible to wind the window down.

For the insurance concerns: Yes, the company first didn´t want to pay, thats why my lawyer has taken over, and now they agreed to pay because it was no racing, just safety training.

[waboom]

Question about the back seat:

How are the riding conditions in the back seat? Do people get claustrophobic back there, can they see the road ahead at all? Anyone ever gotten carsick (Carver-sick?) on you in it?
If you close your eyes, how does your brain/inner ear respond going around a curve?

[NortonF1]

The back seat of the Carver One is definetely only for the hard core people, e.g. the ones that would also sit for hours on the backseat of a Yamaha R1.

But the driving experience is very comfy, as in an airplane, even when the driving is really quick the rear seater normally won´t notice due to the missing side forces.

There is little or no way to alter the position of Your legs so really more suited for luggage or short trips, I would say 2 hours maximum.

Visibilty is ok, but the seating position is low so You will have to look either right or left of the drivers seat.

[rspec7]

Thank you for sharing your story and sorry to hear about your damaged Carver.

I'm also glad that considering the vehicle flipped 1 and 1/2 times, the driver was unharmed. How fast do you think that driver was going? I feel a lot better concerning the safety of this vehicle now.

Also, I've been riding a motorcycle for years. Do you feel that experience carries over to the Carver? Does it feel more like a car or a motorcycle when you're driving it?

Thanks again for your great post!

[NortonF1]

Hatzenbach, the turn where the accident happenened is a relatively slow series of corners, so at the moment the rear stepped out I assume the speed (in the wet) was around 60-70 Km/h (appr. 40-45 mph).

When the Carver started to roll over it must have been much slower, maybe 10-15 mph.

Driving is much more like a motorcycle, or flying on ground, but with Radio, heating and windshield wipers and without the hazzle of leather and helmet, it very enjoyable!

[shooter]

I find now that the back slides on most roundabouts. Probably due to getting more used to the vehicle, that or I'm wearing through the tyres too quickly!

[WarpedOne]

>> I find now that the back slides on most roundabouts.

Are you sure this is sliding and not rear wheell steering?

[NortonF1]

>> I find now that the back slides on most roundabouts.

Are you sure this is sliding and not rear wheell steering?

I can assure You it likes to slide in roundabouts, steering would´nt give those squeeking noises from the rear wheels!=D

[WarpedOne]

Man, I envy you ;)

[Miracleman89]

I guess I am still catching up from my trip to Illinois! I almost missed this thread! Wow, all I can say is those pics of a wrecked Carver One made me wanna cry!:cry: I just hate to see a car like that get messed up!

[johnhead]

Welcome Norton F1 and thank you for your first hand knowledge of the Carver. It was interesting reading and the photos were also appreciated. I have a collection of British motorcycles including four Nortons. I have a 47 "Inter" a 53 ES2, a 68 Paul Dunstall Atlas (photo attached) and a 74 Commando. Looking forward to your post's here in the future.
Regards
John Head

[shooter]

I received an email tonight from Carver UK to say that due to the production delay in 2007 and the current strength of the Euro, they have gone into liquidation. This does not affect Caerver itself, just the distribution in the UK.

I think the problem with the factory dispute last year cost Carver UK a lot of orders, especially as now the Euro is worth 17% more than it was last year. Im ordered mine in June 06 with anticipated delivery of November the same year. It was delayed until May 07 and then the factory making them stopped production over some dispute. I finally got it in April 08. Carver Uk took quite a few orders, I believe they anticipated taking 200 of the 500 being made. The delays and the increased cost due to currency fluctuations probably left them with lots of cancelled orders.

[WarpedOne]

Pitty.

I really do not understand such garage companies. They plan to succed almost without making any products?

[Tim Hodgetts]

Talk about deja vu...I put together the Top Gear shoot which you see on the VV website, as well as some other features. On the strength of that, we had orders for around 8 or 9 Carvers. All of which were cancelled as the Euro wobbled and fluctuated like a jelly on a jack hammer!

The only way to sell a vehicle like the Carver and the Venture is a similar case in point, is to mass produce it and sell to the MASSES that will want it. Forget that there are other cars or vehicles that surpass the 100 mpg bench mark, forget it isn't the most practical vehicle to go shopping at Ikea in.

Remember that it will make an 85 pound accountant with bad eyesight feel like Tom Cruise in Top Gun. Remember you will rediscover the pure joy of driving as if it were the first time and that you will be doing in an ecological and responsible way.

If the Venture One is mass produced and I believe the team has their eye on the ball as far as pricing, then they will STILL be knee deep in orders, requests for dealerships and begging letters from the media to throw free publicity at the product.

This vehicle has the beauty, the technology and the following to create a whole new breed and class of roadgoing craft. They will sell and sell and sell some more!

As far as the crashed Carver is concerned, it is not as bad as it looks. I saw Carvers come back with much worse damage and go back out on the road a few weeks later. As I said in my previous post about how safe they are, the Carver is a solid tank like little vehicle that is actually a great way to travel. Size for size, I would put them up against a lot of much more expensive cars that claim to be supersafe and know I would walk away almost unscathed. I do however sympathise with the German gentleman when seeing your precious Carver damaged like that. It must have been heartbreaking and I wish him all the best getting it back on the road quickly.

[cpaddock]

Howzit TimH! Thanks for the great posting! I totally agree with you and love your "85 pound accountant" image. The "pure joy of driving" is exactly what I'm getting from
my little Miata and why I'm so obsessed with tinkering and rubbing and learning all I can
about it. It certainly makes the wait for the V1 much less agonizing. And once they do
hit the streets, the waiting list will be the main obstical to ownership. On a related topic,
one of the things I would miss in the V1 is the sound of the roadster's engine. I don't
listen to Cd's when driving as the purr of those 16 valves is music to my ears. The blender-like whine of the Electric drive on the Ian's latest video, reminds me of that little
high tech Japanese car in the movie "It's a Wild, Wild, Wild World." Then when the rotamax kicks in.....I may HAVE to put on the Bose noise canceling headphones and
cruise with Coletrain!
Curves Ahead!

[Jake]

This is driving me to distraction. We now have clubs, name it blogs, songs, models, pictures, handling instructions, sound effects, and on and on. We have groupies out the yin-yang, predictions on sales, what it will make us feel like, insights on how it will help accountants grow balls and discussions on handling. We even have plans for getting a group together to drive a couple in mass back from Ca.

The only thing we are missing is a vehicle, productions line, anyone from the company that will answer e-mail, anything like a target date for production let alone sales. In fact, I haven't read a word from anyone in production giving any information in the recent past. Is there anyone there? Maybe it's like the wizard of oz and were standing in front of a big curtain. Anyone else feel this way or is it just me.

[RAN]

Jake, I think that Ian and Co have good intentions on making this vehicle real. I just don't think they know how to knuckle down and make deadlines for various phases of development. Case in point. The Alpha, as rog said in another thread, should be a bare-bones propulsion testbed, but from the rumblings we've heard from Ian, it's being held up to add a bunch of other things that could wait for the Beta prototype. The Alpha, BTW, was supposed to be running by late April-early May. For that matter, they have a Carver glider just waiting to have the new propulsion system installed. Ian has spent a lot of time getting the "word" out about VV. The only problem is, there's no vehicle to get the word out about. Not even an Alpha prototype yet in July 2008.

If the V-1 hit the streets in CA in spring '09, and the rest of the country in spring '10, they'd still be barely enough ahead of the pack to get the attention that Ian craves. Add a year or two to that timeframe, and it'll be "yawn, you have what? Another hybrid?"

This is not what Ian wants. This is not what any of us want. But the skunkworks VV ain't, and that's exactly what they need; a Kelly Johnson to come in and put this project on track.

The story of Venture Vehicles to date has been one of a constant stream of missed target dates, missed updates, poorly maintained website/forum, and poorly run merchandising. Ian's a great talker, but talk won't put a V-1 on the road before 2010... or after it either.

[Mark Tomlinson]

I guess I'm a little more tolerant because at least we occasionally see progress. Even much better funded companies like Fisker, Miles, ZAP, and even GM rarely show off more than a non-functioning glider or computer illustration.

Small companies that did bring something to market, like Aptera, Tesla Motors and Th!nk, got an early influx of hundreds of millions of dollars. Even then, they've just barely started production this year - and Tesla has missed deadline after deadline in the process. Last I heard, Ian and company are still working with their first paltry six million dollars.

[rogwild]

Last I heard, Ian and company are still working with their first paltry six million dollars.

Yep, that is why it is so important that they demonstrate a 'running' concept prototype SOON (before the money 'dries up'), in order to provide, additional funding for Series B, and then on through production. Sure hope the 'July Surprise' will be video of the Alpha 'DRIVING' around, and that more funding has been obtained!

[Chuck]

That means that if You lose the rear in a Corner (what can happen easily on a slippery road when the turbo comes to life at appr. 2500 RPM) You may NOT countersteer to correct this but You may only lift the throttle which will correct the situation due to the fact that the rar wheels also steer.


I've only got 2,200 Km on my Carver One so far and I haven't personally experienced any "oversteerage" yet. But the day is coming because the Austrian roads are just awesome for Carver One touring. dr:ive1)

Anyway, the Carver One manual denotes losing the grip on the back tires as "oversteer" and explains that you're supposed to:
"Hold the steering wheel gently as usual, and gently correct the steering angle until the front wheel is once again pointing in the desired direction."
When the Carver One "understeers", i.e., loses grip on the front wheel, the manual says,
"Ease off the accelerator, causing engine braking.

Hold the steering wheel gently as usual, and gently correct the steering angle." Until I read your post, I was of the opinion that gentle counter-steering was gonna save me some day. Now I'm worried that I've been misinformed by the Carver folks. :confused:

Looking at the pictures of the damage to your Carver One really breaks my heart, Hans. :( Believe me, I feel for you. I recently allowed some folks to test drive my Carver One as well (on a special track). They agreed to take it easy and, fortunately, they didn't manage to wipe out with mine. It just never occurred to me how awful that test drive could have turned out.

[Chuck]

I find now that the back slides on most roundabouts. Probably due to getting more used to the vehicle, that or I'm wearing through the tyres too quickly!

My experience, so far, has been that the front wheel slips on the roundabouts. The roads were cold (November in Austria) and the vehicle is new, but it still makes me wish I had a Pirelli Dragon on the front wheel. ;) With all the years of motorcycling, it's really unnerving to sense the front tire start to go like that.

[NortonF1]

but it still makes me wish I had a Pirelli Dragon on the front wheel. ;) With all the years of motorcycling, it's really unnerving to sense the front tire start to go like that.

Forget the Pirelli, they don´t have a Radial tire that size, and the one they have is noisy and uncomfortable.

The only tires for the Carver One are the orginally fitted GPR 100 Dunlop which You can only buy from Your friendly Carver Dealer for around 270,- Euro, or You can drive the Dunlop 208 or the Bridgestone BT 90 R which I am currently using, and save 150,- Euros compared to the GPR 100!

[carverconcept]

Forget the Pirelli, they don´t have a Radial tire that size, and the one they have is noisy and uncomfortable.

The only tires for the Carver One are the orginally fitted GPR 100 Dunlop which You can only buy from Your friendly Carver Dealer for around 270,- Euro, or You can drive the Dunlop 208 or the Bridgestone BT 90 R which I am currently using, and save 150,- Euros compared to the GPR 100!

I agree with Norton, same experience.