Derwin
02-25-2010, 05:48 AM
Well, it seems there is yet another casualty of the changes being made in the Automotive X-Prize contest. I just received an email from Phillip James from Australia. He is the guy who created the TVA system. He wanted us all to know why he has dropped out. He told me to check out the comment he made on his website pertaining to this, which I have posted below.
A funny thing about this is that it sounds very familiar. I was told that Persu had similar problems with certain rules of the contest as well, and was forced to withdraw. In any case, here are his comments...
A Comment on the Automotive X-Prize
TvA (http://www.tiltingvehicle.net/index.html) entered the AXP based on the rules that were proposed at the time. Our entry focused primarily on achieving efficiency via the use of a streamlined narrow vehicle with innovative steering/ (http://www.tiltingvehicle.net/technical.html)stability (http://www.tiltingvehicle.net/technical.html)systems. (http://www.tiltingvehicle.net/technical.html) The "efficiency" of a vehicle depends largely on the way it is used . Because most vehicles carry less than two persons a wide car with space for 4 people results in a waste of energy over its operating life. Typically a motorcar carries one person for 90% of its operating time. Also, wide/ large/ heavy vehicles are fundamentally inefficient requiring more space to park, more road to drive upon and more raw materials to produce.
Narrow vehicles can solve these problems. However narrow vehicles require innovative control systems to allow the driver a simple control interface [ simple steer] but also allow the vehicle mass to be shifted to the inside of the corner automatically unlike a motorcycle where the driver "balances" the vehicle mass[ manual countersteer].
The AXP organisers stated from the beginning their intention to ban vehicles that required "balancing by the driver" TvA agreed with this because we have always maintained that a vehicle to replace the motorcar should retain motorcar control techniques. To expect the driver to have "balancing skills" as is the case in a motorcycle is not realistic. So, TvA entered into the competition because we believed we had a very efficient vehicle that could win. Our vehicle complied with all requirements within the rules and our entry was welcomed by the AXP.
However after the CONSUMER UNION became a partner in the event additional rules were inserted at the "last minute" to say that "all 4 wheeled vehicles must have a SSF[ static stability factor] of 1.3" This rule applies to all 4 wheelers in mainstream or alternate class even if they shift their mass
advantageously during cornering and so gain stability independent of their SSF.
This fits with the CU campaign against SUV rollovers in the USA. The CU is not without criticism in its methods. http://www.junkscience.com/consumer/oct99/consumer_lat0923.html
[/URL]
(http://www.junkscience.com/consumer/oct99/consumer_lat0923.html)The imposition of the "4 wheel SSF" rule in a blanket fashion without any understanding of "automatic stability systems" throttles innovation . The TvA vehicle would have proved as stable as any vehicle[ no matter how wide ] in any dynamic testing... and we wanted to show this to be the case to all.
A conventional motorcar leans the wrong way and so looses stability as it corners whereas the TvA
system tilts inwards in a corner and so gains stability. To require a SSF of 1.3 for a tilting vehicle lacks logic. This rule remains in the final draft and so the TvA entry [ a 4 wheeler] is banned by the AXP rules.
But furthermore, if TvA had entered a 3 wheel version of its system and not the 4 wheel version then the "4 wheel SSF" rule would not apply and the vehicle would be accepted under the rules.
Other anomalies arose because in the AXP rules a motor vehicle with 4 wheels is required to have a SSF of 1.3 but a 3 wheeled motor vehicle [in the alternate class] is not tested for ANY static stability. Generally speaking a 3 wheeled non tilt vehicle is less stable than a 4 wheel non tilt vehicle and a "SSF" is often used to ensure that 3 wheel NON tilt vehicles are stable in various jurisdictions Worldwide.
The thrust of the AXP rules attempts to reverse this logic.
These irregularities within the rules reflect a poor grasp of what is required in a competition of this type. Its not that I seek to be excessively critical but the point remains that TvA warned the rule makers within the AXP of the problems they were about to create. A solution was presented to the AXP but ignored.
I wish the competition well. TvA wishes the competition well. We applaud any attempt to highlight the need for efficiency. However there seems to be some lack of efficiency within the AXP team that has resulted in a less than ideal outcome. I suspect this was inevitable.
Hopefully my comments will be seen as constructive and better outcomes in future events may result.
Please note the extract below is from the latest rules issued by the AXP. Click here for the full details. (http://www.tiltingvehicle.net/files/PIAXP_Guidelines_V_1.3_12.21.09.pdf)
[URL="http://www.tiltingvehicle.net/files/PIAXP_Guidelines_V_1.3_12.21.09.pdf"] (http://www.tiltingvehicle.net/files/PIAXP_Guidelines_V_1.3_12.21.09.pdf)Phillip James [TvA Australia] www.tiltingvehicle.net (http://www.tiltingvehilce.net/)
A funny thing about this is that it sounds very familiar. I was told that Persu had similar problems with certain rules of the contest as well, and was forced to withdraw. In any case, here are his comments...
A Comment on the Automotive X-Prize
TvA (http://www.tiltingvehicle.net/index.html) entered the AXP based on the rules that were proposed at the time. Our entry focused primarily on achieving efficiency via the use of a streamlined narrow vehicle with innovative steering/ (http://www.tiltingvehicle.net/technical.html)stability (http://www.tiltingvehicle.net/technical.html)systems. (http://www.tiltingvehicle.net/technical.html) The "efficiency" of a vehicle depends largely on the way it is used . Because most vehicles carry less than two persons a wide car with space for 4 people results in a waste of energy over its operating life. Typically a motorcar carries one person for 90% of its operating time. Also, wide/ large/ heavy vehicles are fundamentally inefficient requiring more space to park, more road to drive upon and more raw materials to produce.
Narrow vehicles can solve these problems. However narrow vehicles require innovative control systems to allow the driver a simple control interface [ simple steer] but also allow the vehicle mass to be shifted to the inside of the corner automatically unlike a motorcycle where the driver "balances" the vehicle mass[ manual countersteer].
The AXP organisers stated from the beginning their intention to ban vehicles that required "balancing by the driver" TvA agreed with this because we have always maintained that a vehicle to replace the motorcar should retain motorcar control techniques. To expect the driver to have "balancing skills" as is the case in a motorcycle is not realistic. So, TvA entered into the competition because we believed we had a very efficient vehicle that could win. Our vehicle complied with all requirements within the rules and our entry was welcomed by the AXP.
However after the CONSUMER UNION became a partner in the event additional rules were inserted at the "last minute" to say that "all 4 wheeled vehicles must have a SSF[ static stability factor] of 1.3" This rule applies to all 4 wheelers in mainstream or alternate class even if they shift their mass
advantageously during cornering and so gain stability independent of their SSF.
This fits with the CU campaign against SUV rollovers in the USA. The CU is not without criticism in its methods. http://www.junkscience.com/consumer/oct99/consumer_lat0923.html
[/URL]
(http://www.junkscience.com/consumer/oct99/consumer_lat0923.html)The imposition of the "4 wheel SSF" rule in a blanket fashion without any understanding of "automatic stability systems" throttles innovation . The TvA vehicle would have proved as stable as any vehicle[ no matter how wide ] in any dynamic testing... and we wanted to show this to be the case to all.
A conventional motorcar leans the wrong way and so looses stability as it corners whereas the TvA
system tilts inwards in a corner and so gains stability. To require a SSF of 1.3 for a tilting vehicle lacks logic. This rule remains in the final draft and so the TvA entry [ a 4 wheeler] is banned by the AXP rules.
But furthermore, if TvA had entered a 3 wheel version of its system and not the 4 wheel version then the "4 wheel SSF" rule would not apply and the vehicle would be accepted under the rules.
Other anomalies arose because in the AXP rules a motor vehicle with 4 wheels is required to have a SSF of 1.3 but a 3 wheeled motor vehicle [in the alternate class] is not tested for ANY static stability. Generally speaking a 3 wheeled non tilt vehicle is less stable than a 4 wheel non tilt vehicle and a "SSF" is often used to ensure that 3 wheel NON tilt vehicles are stable in various jurisdictions Worldwide.
The thrust of the AXP rules attempts to reverse this logic.
These irregularities within the rules reflect a poor grasp of what is required in a competition of this type. Its not that I seek to be excessively critical but the point remains that TvA warned the rule makers within the AXP of the problems they were about to create. A solution was presented to the AXP but ignored.
I wish the competition well. TvA wishes the competition well. We applaud any attempt to highlight the need for efficiency. However there seems to be some lack of efficiency within the AXP team that has resulted in a less than ideal outcome. I suspect this was inevitable.
Hopefully my comments will be seen as constructive and better outcomes in future events may result.
Please note the extract below is from the latest rules issued by the AXP. Click here for the full details. (http://www.tiltingvehicle.net/files/PIAXP_Guidelines_V_1.3_12.21.09.pdf)
[URL="http://www.tiltingvehicle.net/files/PIAXP_Guidelines_V_1.3_12.21.09.pdf"] (http://www.tiltingvehicle.net/files/PIAXP_Guidelines_V_1.3_12.21.09.pdf)Phillip James [TvA Australia] www.tiltingvehicle.net (http://www.tiltingvehilce.net/)