Persu Mobility"s Year Long Coma

[rickb]

Will Derwin successfully awaken this small start up car company in 2010 or pull the plug? What is a realistic amount of time for total silence before making the assumption that the Persu Hybrid will not be produced? Those are questions I hope you help answer as I travel from the Midwest's deep freeze to a sunny, unusually cool Florida over the next few days. Good luck Derwin!

[Derwin]

I just logged in to see what's going on at the club, and respond to a couple posts. But I've been really, really sick over the past few days, and haven't had a chance to call my contact at Persu yet.

Sorry about the delay, but I have to get over the flu before doing anything else. Hopefully this will be out of me within a couple days at the most.

Derwin

[Derwin]

I just tried calling Phil Oseas over at Persu, but it (again!) went into his voice mail. I left him a message, and I guess we'll just have to wait and see when/if he responds.

Just thought I would keep you guys up to date on what going on.

Keep thinking positive! thu:mbs:up:22

Derwin

[Derwin]

Just to keep you guys updated....

I DID receive a call from Phil Oseas today, but I wasn't available to answer it. He left a voice-mail asking me to return his call. I tried calling him back again, but it then went into HIS voice mail. So I guess we've been playing "phone tag" with each other for the past several days.

Anyway, it's good to see that he got my message, and is at least trying to call me back.

I'll try to get ahold of him again tomorrow.

Derwin

[rickb]

That was probably the one and only phone call he makes in 2010, but still a good sign that the phone is connected at Persu Mobility.

[Derwin]

Well, Phil Oseas called me back again today, and I was here to answer the call! :whoohoo:

Right out of the box I want to inform everybody that Persu Mobility is indeed alive. They are still there "holding down the fort" and attempting to get our dream vehicle developed and eventually in production. Although I cannot share our ENTIRE conversation due to a CA (Confidentiality Agreement), I can share the most interesting of it all. So here it goes . . .

We began the conversation by me simply asking if all was well with the company, and if things are still "on track" with what they planned. I thought that was a fairly easy question, but it turned out to be complex. He reported that things are "well" with the company, and that they still are working on this. But at this point in time they are still seeking investment money. They need backers for this dream to become a reality.

As most of you know, the legislation was just passed (HR3183) that allows DOE funding for this type of vehicle. Well, Persu is looking into accessing these funds for their company, which will obviously help them along in the process.

Persu has put together a viable business plan that is very attractive.

Persu has a VERY viable product that should have mass appeal to the marketplace.

Persu has done everything in their power at this point in the game to take this to the next level. But now all they need is the financial backing to make this all happen. That is what they are working on at this very moment.

One thing that I felt compelled to ask him about (since I know many of you are interested!), is the reason they have dropped out of the Progressive XPrize Contest. Well, there are many reasons for this, and, again, I can't go into detail about it all, but here are some that I can tell you about....

First, and foremost... The Progressive XPrize ended up not fitting into the time line of how the company is progressing.

Second... They found out, after much back and forth, that they would have to dedicate time and valuable resourced (which they do NOT have!) to the development of a prototype exclusively for this contest. That was not going to happen!

They attempted to make this contest fit in with their plans, but due to requirements that simply could not and would not be met, Persu made the decision to pull out, and instead focus on getting this company and vehicle on the market. The XPrize Contest would have taken their focus off this main goal, and would have exhausted funds that are already stressed.

One thing I think we should all take notice of as well, is that Fisker also pulled out of the XPrize, as did Tesla as well as others. You will also not see any large automakers in the XPrize Contest. Just thought I should point that out.

Phil just wanted me to let all of the enthusiasts know that they ARE still their trying their darndest to make this vehicle a reality. They are working on continued funding; hooking up with strategic partners that they will need, and also working on a supply chain that this vehicle will need when it's time.

One thing that he wanted me to emphasis is that this undertaking incredibly huge, and even overwhelming. They could very easily create a one-off vehicle out of their garage, and be praised by many in the short term. But they are not looking to do that. They are attempting to create a vehicle that can be MASS-PRODUCED. Doing this, according to Phil, is incredibly difficult. They need to make sure every element of the vehicle meets certain criteria for mass production. This is at an entirely different level than slapping together a vehicle out of your garage over the weekend.

Anyway, the conversation was very good. I wasn't really given anything to cheer about, though. There were no dates given for this or that goal to be met. There wasn't even a date given for when they think this would go into production. The bottom line is that this company is not even at that point yet. They are still looking for financial backers and partners that will take this to the next level.

Will Persu ever get our dream vehicle developed and in production? I have no idea, and I don't think they do either.....These are MY words, NOT his! But I know one thing for sure.... We will be here IF and/or WHEN they do.

I know this post isn't too encouraging, but at least we still have the lines of communication open with them.

Derwin

[Donald1800]

My comment about this result is "...No Comment..."

Donald1800

[snave]

I think it speaks volumes

[rickb]

Derwin.............thanks for the Persu update............and I agree that it's not that encouraging. It is way to far out to maintain any level of enthusiasm about for an old geezer that has been waiting enthusiastically the past three years. My attitude now is if it happens it happens and simply hope.

[Derwin]

Derwin.............thanks for the Persu update............and I agree that it's not that encouraging. It is way too far out to maintain any level of enthusiasm about for an old geezer that has been waiting enthusiastically the past three years. My attitude now is if it happens it happens and simply hope.


Yep. I know, and I'm feeling the same way as everybody else.

Although the "lights" are still on at the company, it doesn't seem that there's anything happening. It's incredibly discouraging, to say the least.

I'm tempted to go into one of my infamous diatribes, but, uh, I'll hold back. :shup:

Derwin

[Mike kZ]

Thanks for the update Derwin!
I still think they should put out a prototype that is as close to production as posible. If people saw a working vehicle they would get more backing.

[rickb]

I always thought they had a working production prototype.....................if they don't I'm not sure it's possible to be working with potential suppliers for parts if the parts aren't designed, assembled, and specified. It could be under a cloaking device made visable only to potential investors, but the more we don't hear from Persu the more likely it is they have nothing but a $6 million dollar foam mockup and I'm disappointed about that.

[MikeB]

I suspect most of the regulars on this board will agree with this statement, but I think Persu is making a mistake in strategy when they drop out of the X-Prize contest. Not a massive mistake, and there are arguments on both sides, but I think they picked the weaker side.

Here's the deal: they need financing in order to go further. That process is apparently stalled. They need to do something to break out of the pack, to demonstrate that their product is worthy of investment. Just as importantly, the DoE loans also have a viability requirement, the loan recipient must demonstrate that they have potential as a company. The X-Prize is a reasonably good tool to produce the type of demonstration they need. I expect that anyone who wins the X-Prize can almost automatically count on numerous phone calls from investors, some of whom will be able to channel the amount of money needed ($20M?)

Phil is correct in stating that building a one-off garage prototype is a whole different animal than building a production vehicle. He's right in saying that it would be a drain in resources, a disruption of focus. However, being focused on a production vehicle doesn't appear to be particularly effective at the moment, so the distraction may actually be the quickest path to funding and then to production.

Of course, there's that NDA to deal with. Clearly, something else is going on that we (except Derwin) don't know about. If you assume my logic above is correct, and Persu knows it, then the unknown info must somehow change the balance. That would imply that Persu is actually reasonably close to some sort of financing agreement, or at least they believe themselves to be. And it's pretty obvious that a financing agreement is precisely the type of info that is generally protected by NDAs, at least until it's final.

So, is this reason to have hope? I'm not sure. Persu could simply have made the wrong choice, or they could be talking to an investor who has no intention of acting any time soon. They may need to seek an alternate investor but not realize it. There's plenty of room for small mistakes to have put them on the slow path.

In any case, thanks to Derwin for acting as the club investigator and getting on the phone.

[Jonathan Blair]

Strange, but the last time I was on this site (nearly a year ago), this was the status (minus the X-Prize, which they had just signed up to compete in). I see things are still on track to nowhere.

[rickb]

Hey JB........................I'm unsure if PM has followed thru with anything they said they were going to do not even the X-Prize competition which I think would have attracted maximum potential investor/capital interest...............so they are still on the same track to nowhere. Although Derwin's status report "there is life at PM" did provide for a short boost of enthusiasm. Stranger yet, just imagine the frustration had you been checking for daily updates...............like me. I am thinking seriously about going to a yearly check.

[Baja_Traveler]

While I thought for sure I would be driving back and forth to work in one of these vehicles by this time, I also figured that I would be competing for freeway space with a whole slew of Aptera's - the development of which was WAY further along than the Venture was at the time. Neither has made it onto our roadways as of yet. So I still wait for my affordable 50+ MPG vehicle to become available here in the U.S. - the biggest question is who is it going to be? Persu? Aptera? The Germans ? The Japanese? The Koreans? Not even the "experts" know...

[rickb]

While I thought for sure I would be driving back and forth to work in one of these vehicles by this time, I also figured that I would be competing for freeway space with a whole slew of Aptera's - the development of which was WAY further along than the Venture was at the time. Neither has made it onto our roadways as of yet. So I still wait for my affordable 50+ MPG vehicle to become available here in the U.S. - the biggest question is who is it going to be? Persu? Aptera? The Germans ? The Japanese? The Koreans? Not even the "experts" know...

The U.S.A.'s Elio Motors is my best guess will be the first because of "why" (Company Philosophy)they want to build this type of vehicle.

[Miracleman89]

well at least the lights are still on!!!!!! That is something.... It may not be much but it is something....

[rickb]

Miracleman89....................now there is a member we haven't heard from in awhile. Keep in mind it is good news that the lights are still on, but is anybody home?

[PHEVadvocate]

What they are doing isn't easy or cheap and the economy isn't helping things. Even Aptera who looked like they had all the cards stacked in their favor in now in trouble. For both companies where their is life their is hope! I wish them both well!
:)

[Derwin]

For both companies where their is life their is hope! I wish them both well!


Amen to that, brother!

I'm just hoping that they find the financing that they need to take this to the next level. Going back to 2007, I really believed that we would all be driving this vehicle by now.... 2010. I guess the financial collapse has hit all sectors of our economy, and the Persu Hybrid project was/is no exception to that. I know we lost a large number of members over the past year because they lost faith in Persu. I actually received emails from former members telling me that they think Persu is some kind of "scheme", and they never even intended on making an actual vehicle. To me, this kind of thinking is simply irrational. All we have to do is look at the near depression that we've gone through over the past couple years, and that should answer any doubts about why Persu has had problems. It's all about MONEY, people. And if there's none out there, then it makes sense that the Persu project is drifting.

Derwin

[rickb]

I'm sure if Persu Mobility would have continued with a periodic minimal progress update, had an actual production model (I always thought they did have something beyond a foam mockup to attract additional investment capital), not dropped out of the XPrize competition, and followed through on promises made, some members would not have felt that way. That could be rational thinking. Many of us are just still to hopeful that it may happen and that might be irrational thinking.

[Derwin]

I'm sure if Persu Mobility would have continued with a periodic minimal progress update, had an actual production model (I always thought they did have something beyond a foam mockup to attract additional investment capital), not dropped out of the XPrize competition, and followed through on promises made, some members would not have felt that way. That could be rational thinking. Many of us are just still to hopeful that it may happen and that might be irrational thinking.

The problem with that, Rick, is that we have gone through the worst economic meltdown since the great depression, and I'm just saying that this "may have" had an incredible negative affect on the development of the Persu Hybrid. Actually, I would dare to say that it was the PRIMARY reason for the project stalling. In regards to what is rational thinking and what is not rational.... My comment about this was pertaining to some members thinking that Ian and Howard never intended on making a vehicle, and that it was all a scam.... THAT is what I think is irrational thinking when put in the light of what's been happening in our country over the past two years.

And as for me (or people like me) being "hopeful" that this will still happen.... I don't think that's irrational at all. Hope is a great thing. But never confuse "hope" with "belief". I may "hope" that Persu gets a vehicle on the road, but I surely do not "believe" it will happen. I don't disbelieve it either, though. Like the rest of you, I just don't know.

Derwin

[rickb]

I remain "hopeful" too and will be in "disbelief" when the first Persu rolls off the assembly line. It's the silence and the unwillingness to update enthusiasts that goes beyond the icey economy that I have serious issue with.

[Derwin]

I remain "hopeful" too and will be in "disbelief" when the first Persu rolls off the assembly line.

LOL! r:o:f:l:2:2:1 Yeah, I guess we'll all be a bit shocked and in disbelief when/if they ever get this vehicle built!


It's the silence and the unwillingness to update enthusiasts that goes beyond the icey economy that I have serious issue with.

Absolutely. I still cannot figure out why they wouldn't want to speak to their most avid supporters. Ian loved talking with us, and developed a good relationship with all enthusiasts. But it seems when he left the company, so did the public relations dept., unfortunately.

Ian, oh Ian, wherefore art thou?

Oh, well. I guess we just have to sit back and watch what happens next. sitpopbackcorn

Derwin

[jeremymc7]

Disappointed as I'm sure many are. Persu still hasn't come out. Carver never made it to the U.S., let alone is pretty much gone all together. Even things like VW 1L has been pushed back further. More me there is no limited / mass produced out of the box "enclosed" fun vesicles available or on the near horizon from anyone creditable in the U.S. More waiting. Guess I go buy a sports car while I wait. =)

[Jack Willard]

Sigh... Take a deep breath and then breath out. Don't hold it waiting for a Persu. Hope? yes. But I'm sure not planning on anything.

Now, I'm looking around and just waiting for whoever comes out first with the vehicle that will do what I need. o:h"we"ll1

[rickb]

I've been holding my breath for 3 years and it feels good to breathe a sigh of relief. I was counting on Elio to be my best option for that safe fun to drive high mpg vehicle thinking they may get to market loooong before Persu, however, the coma is apparently contagious among new start up car makers. Jeremymc7 may have the right idea about finding something fun to drive while waiting for something fun to drive. I think we are in for a long, long wait for the new innovative concept vehicle that will meet our fly the road standards.

[MVRacing]

Well, I'm starting to think the only way is "do-it-your-self" I have a Miata, the race car, and a Zero S electric bike (ordered) to try to fill the need in the mean time.

[waboom]

Well, I've got to imagine that Venture Capitalists aren't exactly rushing out to finance automotive companies, especially since all Americans are essentially owners of a car company now (thank you GM). That, and since VC funds have dried up over the past year as well, the Venture Capitalists are being even more choosy where to invest their money. I just hope Persu is able to find that certain VC who is able to see the true potential of this machine, and is able to be convinced that Persu won't have one of those Toyota-grade recalls within the first year or two of shipment!

[rickb]

Carver owners were complaining of problems with the DVC tilt mechanism and didn't seem particularly happy about how the dealers were handling it. Maybe it isn't a reliable system and is prone to breakdowns/recalls. Reliability and build quality have always been a concern of mine, particularly on the first Persu model year.........providing there is a first year model release which doesn't seem likely in my life time. Yes, I'll buy the first Persu to roll off the assembly line. I also think VC's would be inclined to invest in the potential of alternative energy vehicles. The American Public Car Company GM Volt is soon to hit the market...could be a home run vehicle......time will tell. We may make enough money off the Volt to pay for health care reform. (Humor)

[SafetyMan]

Derwin,
Thanks for the info. I stop in every now and then just to keep in the loop. As others may feel, I sure hope to see this vehicle before I do the last fly away. o:h"we"ll1
Here at the Cape, we have a certain road I want to try flying!!!!!! Maybe Persue will replace the shuttle as the thing to talk about here at Kennedy Space Center.
Again Thanks for the info Keep it Up! Safetyman

[mobility]

Yeah, I have been holding out waiting for this and nothing. It is a news vacuum on their site.

Is this car going to be reality or just DOA...

[rickb]

Welcome to the club mobility. Long time members are asking the same question. It has been 3 years since the concept with little/no progress. All we can do is sit back and wait for a long overdue announcement from Persu.

[CysticVic]

Will Derwin successfully awaken this small start up car company in 2010 or pull the plug? What is a realistic amount of time for total silence before making the assumption that the Persu Hybrid will not be produced? Those are questions I hope you help answer as I travel from the Midwest's deep freeze to a sunny, unusually cool Florida over the next few days. Good luck Derwin!

Maybe it's time to stop waiting and build our own vehicle. I'm sure it won't be as nice as the Persu, but it's better to have a real car than to keep waiting on someone else's dream.

I know I don't have all the skills it would take to design and build such a cutting edge vehicle, but I bet I could find people that could.

I know that there would be roadblocks, but we're Americans, remember? We thrive on roadblocks.

Here are some troubles I forsee:

Instead of a computer controlled tilt mechanism, wouldn't some shock absorbers work?
If I couldn't handle the tech's of a hybrid (or the battery expense), I bet a gas powered engine would be a vast improvement in milage over that four wheel thing we're currently driving.

I am sure I could learn to form a fiberglass shell, with enough research and assistance.

There are enough welding shops out there that I don't see why one couldn't be hired to weld a frame.

So, any takers?

[wireman]

Welcome to the club mobility. Long time members are asking the same question. It has been 3 years since the concept with little/no progress. All we can do is sit back and wait for a long overdue announcement from Persu.
Indeed, welcome m. Or any of the other good concepts floating around rb! Or, as in some cases, trying to do one yourself, just to scratch that FTR itch. BTW my 1f2r design still aint there yet, sorry! DRAT those compound angles!

[rickb]

Hey wireman.....................lots of good concepts floating around that will end up in the concept museum and not in our garages. Nice to have the skill to build your own. Are you in a planning on paper/CAD or fabricating in your shop phase? You mention compund angles with some frustration. If there is a welding or auto body program at the high school level or tech school level, perhaps they would take on your concept as a class project. There are sophisticated design build shops in some of the area schools and the students could get pretty excited about designing and welding those compound angles by creating the shell for your FTR three wheeler.

[wireman]

I'm in the CAD planning stage, rb. As I have said before, my concept is very similar to the BMW SIMPLE with a bit of F-117 and F-22 thrown in, just to be wild! Actually, not really wild, because there are good reasons for those design elements to be used, besides cool factor. The problem I am having with the angles stems from the foam panel/ fiberglass method of construction used by R.Q. Riley for his prototypes. This would be the cheapest way for me to create the body shell, but it does present problems when the entire shape is created from flat triangular segments. The foam panels must be cut to exacting dimensions and angles to avoid overhang at the mating edges and points. Riley avoids this in his designs by use of sweeping curves which define the basic shape, and then sanding to final form to eliminate overhang. There are very few areas on his prototypes that consist of three or four flat/ compound angle panels. The only example I can think of is the nose of the Tri-Muter. Nothing wrong with that, either! Tri- Magnum is a masterpiece of design! But that's not the look I want.

[rickb]

Wireman................all I can say to that is ........DRAT! although the compound angles will make for one edgy looking three wheeler when your plan finally comes together.

[watts_up]

I had not been following the lack of development from Persu for a couple of years. I just happened upon the French product called the Lumenero Smeara today, that is completely EV, and thought I'd check back to see where Persu was in development. Sadly- I've always thought it was poorly managed, on several levels. They do share our dream however, and I do wish them the best of luck. When I watch shows like Street Customs, American Chopper, Chop Shop etc... I realize custom products like this can be built fairly quickly, even with re-work- then stripped down and re-engineered to both work great and get ready for mass production. I don't think Persu's team is qualified to do any of it. I'd be curious when/how the licensing changes w/ the exclusive rights they hold on the tilt technology. It's not the only way to do it, but it's a neat way. I heard about the collapse of Carver and wonder if we're just in a minority niche that is not economically feasible for production, I hope that's not the case. Again, thank you for contacting them and getting some kind of update. Bummer news indeed...

[rickb]

Come on Persu wake up and give up the good or bad news..............let us see video of a rolling prototype so we know in fact you guys are serious about building this vehicle or at least one. If we don't hear something from this company in the next few days I think sadly it's time to pull the plug on this comatose company. I for one need proof and nothing but the proof to believe that there should be any hope remaining for a future Persu Hybrid.

[Derwin]

If we don't hear something from this company in the next few days I think sadly it's time to pull the plug on this comatose company. I for one need proof and nothing but the proof to believe that there should be any hope remaining for a future Persu Hybrid.

Well, I don't think you should "hold your breath" expecting to hear from them in the next few days. It's just not going to happen.

You may be correct in that there may not be any hope for the Persu Hybrid ever coming out. But I'll remain here holding down the fort until the plug is officially pulled on Persu. I've stayed with them for the past 3 years, and I'm not about to give up on them now.

Derwin

[wireman]

YOU WILL HOLD THAT FORT TILL YOU DIE, D! "Never give up!--Never surrender! This club MUST continue, therefore YOU will continue!r:o:f:l:2:2:1

Whether or no Persu manages to surprise us, there are plenty of good things to track and talk about, and we would all miss this forum terribly. Sure, it would be great if Persu put the club back to being 98% about how their vehicle is really coming along, that latest vid was 10X cool, huh! Maybe never, but we have had fun anyway, even during "coma year".

[Derwin]

YOU WILL HOLD THAT FORT TILL YOU DIE, D! "Never give up!--Never surrender! This club MUST continue, therefore YOU will continue!r:o:f:l:2:2:1

Whether or no Persu manages to surprise us, there are plenty of good things to track and talk about, and we would all miss this forum terribly. Sure, it would be great if Persu put the club back to being 98% about how their vehicle is really

Well, I'm pretty busy with quite a few projects on my plate at this time. Just check out 2 of them over at my other forum... www.RocketbeltSociety.com (http://www.RocketbeltSociety.com) and I think you'll agree!

But I began this club 3 years ago with an incredible amount of excitement for this company and this vehicle. I began this club truly believing that this company was for "real" and that they were actually going to manufacture this dream ride. Over the past few years the company has taken us on a roller coaster ride of ups and downs, with the past year being mostly a free fall downwards! I'm not a stupid man (that's what I keep telling myself, anyway!), and I completely understand that Persu must be having some major problems. I mean, that's rather obvious, right? My faith in the company has taken a huge beating, and I now have the unfortunate mindset that this company may never produce the Persu Hybrid. But to me that is not cause to give up hope and/or to shut down this club. First, I have not given up hope on the Persu Hybrid. I still hope that it gets made, although my hope is based on almost nothing at this point. As for this club, you are correct in pointing out that we have a world filled with really good and interesting things to talk about. This club now exists for the purpose of talking about ALL of these things on the horizon, and not just about Persu.

So, as I said, I'm still here holding down the fort. Come visit next year, and I'll still be here. Come visit in 2015, and I'll still be here, hopefully talking with others about my Persu Hybrid, and not talking to myself in a vacant forum! bl:ink:1

Derwin

[rickb]

I grabbed my chest for a moment...............I'm ready to pull the plug on Persu Mobility not the club. Derwin this website continues to provide for intelligent information about future vehicle concepts and other technologies that are relevant to our future dream machine.........and sometimes humorous chat that makes my day. I hope you are at the helm way after I've given up hope on Elio Motors....three years from now.

There is no logical reason PM couldn't respond to my plea for their company status. I thought that statement might provide just enough shock to wake them up from their year long coma. (Humorous Chatter) Keep up the good work. My only major disappointment is with PM. Wireman you are right about Derwin and I hope he never gives up!

[waboom]

I agree, but I've just got to say: Derwin, if I come back in 2015 and find you are the only one posting here I'm going to officially rename you Oddball (http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/showthread.php?615-Possible-%28theoretical%29-status-of-the-VV-website&p=8215#post8215).

[rickb]

Oh hell! I'll probably still be here too venting my frustrations about Persu Mobility or whatever they call themselves in 2015. Hopefully, driving whatever tilting three wheeler is on the market by then.

[Derwin]

I agree, but I've just got to say: Derwin, if I come back in 2015 and find you are the only one posting here I'm going to officially rename you Oddball (http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/showthread.php?615-Possible-%28theoretical%29-status-of-the-VV-website&p=8215#post8215).

Just "believe" it will be there, and it will be there! r:o:f:l:2:2:1 thu:mbs:up:22

[wireman]

You can count on me to be here in 2015 as well, waboom. D may get discouraged betimes, because he is realist enough to know that all this silence from Persu (probably, not certainly) means that the foam mockup is all the dream we will ever get from them. Yet he and I, and several others, will gladly take on the oddball mantle because of that small seed of hope that someone will market this concept someday. Then all of us oddballs will be able to say to the ones who gave up; "See! We told you so!"

[rickb]

I'm as oddball as the next enthusiast but have pretty much given up on Persu, however, haven't given up on the likelyhood of this concept being mass produced. A tilting vehicle has been produced in small hand built numbers so it's not like a totally new concept. Somebody will in fact mass produce a tilting Carver-like three wheeler alternative energy vehicle oneday. I'm just not sure I'll be able to drive by the time it gets to market. The former V1/Persu enthusiasts developing their own Fly The Road Concept the Sparc EXV may be the ones to watch.