The Carver One in the party . [Archive]

apasionado

12-18-2009, 06:03 AM

Hy, my friends.

The Carver forum is very , very quiet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No photos , no iinformation...

The Different Cars company with the Carver One , the other day ,

participate in the party of the " Product of the year " celebrate in the

popular hotel ,in Barcelona, without the other friends.

PHOTOS:

http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=965&stc=1&d=1261140438

http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=966&stc=1&d=1261140438

http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=967&stc=1&d=1261140438

Best regards.

www.differentcars.es (http://www.differentcars.es)

Derwin

12-18-2009, 06:51 AM

Seems things are "dead" or "silent" in a lot of places now. This club has been all but dead over the past year due to Persu going into stealth mode. I hope things change soon.

I would still love to own a Carver vehicle, though. They are simply incredible.

Hey, if you know anybody willing to send me a used Carver, tell them I can drive it around Chicago and give them free publicity! 2thumb:up

Mike kZ

12-18-2009, 08:05 AM

Hey your Carver looks a little crooked! :)

jeremymc7

12-18-2009, 01:42 PM

Really sucks when you want something but it's not available for purchase. Bring Carver back and to the US and / or start selling the Persu.

Ack!

dr4

12-19-2009, 01:44 AM

Seems things are "dead" or "silent" in a lot of places now.

How 'bout this? http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-neil18-2009dec18,0,1349599.columnno:wor:thy1

Derwin

12-19-2009, 07:04 AM

How 'bout this? http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-neil18-2009dec18,0,1349599.columnno:wor:thy1

Well, again, another prototype with an expected release of 2011 or 2012. And it's not a "FlyTheRoad" type vehicle, so it doesn't excite me very much anyway.

After the holidays, I'll be contacting the people at Persu to get some information from them. We've let this entire year just pass by without really getting any information at all, and I think it's time we start aggressively knocking on some doors!

Derwin

rickb

12-19-2009, 01:00 PM

Well, again, another prototype with an expected release of 2011 or 2012. And it's not a "FlyTheRoad" type vehicle, so it doesn't excite me very much anyway.

After the holidays, I'll be contacting the people at Persu to get some information from them. We've let this entire year just pass by without really getting any information at all, and I think it's time we start aggressively knocking on some doors!

Derwin
Maybe the people at Persu would be more willing to share information during the "Holiday Season" (Goodwill to FTRC enthusiasts) that would end the year with a Christmas gift of updates. There has to be some Christmas spirit at Persu don't you think?

Donald1800

12-19-2009, 09:01 PM

erric288

12-20-2009, 12:46 PM

We should find the actual CEOs and such and ask them in person about what's going on because this is getting ridiculous. I'm nowhere near Los Angeles or wherever the HQ is now; plus I'm stuck in 2ft of snow out here so somebody has to contact them in person. Lets get some info.

rickb

12-20-2009, 01:44 PM

I truly do hope that you can get some information from them. But as I've said several times before, I really don't think anything has happened or changed since the 'investment group' took control. Based upon even the Persu's own site, nothing has changed.

We should be looking for a viable alternative to the old VV1 rather than holding our breath for a dead project.

Donald1800

We should always be on the lookout for an alternative fly the road option, but don't give up on the Persu Hybrid until you hear some official word it's dead. I truly believe the production Model Persu is built, being tested and tweeked and is simply on hold waiting for second round production funding.

Derwin

12-20-2009, 06:20 PM

We should always be on the lookout for an alternative fly the road option, but don't give up on the Persu Hybrid until you hear some official word it's dead.

Absolutely. I think I've preached this since we began this club. Let's ALWAYS be looking for new and exciting vehicles that will give us the "FlyTheRoad" experience. That's what this club is all about. And if we hear that Persu is indeed dead, then we will take a vote of members on what other vehicle we should focus our efforts on. But as for now, I still have a lingering hope that Persu will be alive and active soon.

I truly believe the production Model Persu is built, being tested and tweeked and is simply on hold waiting for second round production funding.

That's my hope also. Let's hope we're not proven wrong!

Derwin

dr4

12-20-2009, 07:34 PM

I don't know if anyone's noticed, but Wikipedia seems to have updated their spot on Persu. Skepticism seems to have leaked into this site as well. Check it out.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persu_Hybrid

Derwin

12-21-2009, 08:09 AM

I don't know if anyone's noticed, but Wikipedia seems to have updated their spot on Persu. Skepticism seems to have leaked into this site as well. Check it out.

One thing you have to remember about Wikipedia, is that the content of it is entirely donated by normal people like you and I. Anybody can submit an article on a subject, and say pretty much anything they want. Wikipedia tries to monitor this by making the submitter give references. If you notice in this article where it states people are beginning to think the Persu Hybrid is vaporware, you'll see in parentheses (who?). This means that whoever submitted this article is stating something that he cannot reference or prove. But regardless of that, we all know that there are indeed people who are beginning to think this way. But I wouldn't give this Wikipedia article any serious thought at all. Wikipedia in general is a very poor source for reliable information.

But if Persu doesn't begin to release information soon, I expect we will be seeing more and more articles like this popping up everywhere.

Derwin

Mike kZ

12-21-2009, 08:26 AM

Derwin

12-21-2009, 08:49 AM

Why don't we send our fearless leader Derwin to California to meet with the Persue team in person, if Derwin is interested. Derwin could see how much it would cost, and we could start a fund to help pay for this. It may take awhile to raise funds, but I don't think we are in a hurry.
What do you guys think?

Mike, I appreciate the gesture, but I really think it would be utterly futile to go to California. And besides that, we have members of this club already on the ground not far from Persu Headquarters, so sending me wouldn't really be necessary, although I would love to take the trip!

Look.... I have made several calls to Persu, and have even left messages. None of my calls have been answered, and none of my messages have been responded to. This just leaves me to believe that they have completely shut their doors to communication, and even if I showed up on their doorstep, I doubt I would find out anything new.

The Progressive XPrize contest has some dates coming up, and if Persu is a no show, then I guess we can begin seriously questioning things.

Derwin

MVRacing

12-21-2009, 09:05 AM

.... I have made several calls to Persu, and have even left messages. None of my calls have been answered, and none of my messages have been responded to. This just leaves me to believe that they have completely shut their doors to communication, and even if I showed up on their doorstep, I doubt I would find out anything new.

The Progressive XPrize contest has some dates coming up, and if Persu is a no show, then I guess we can begin seriously questioning things.
Derwin

I agree that attempting to meet face to face wouldn't produce any more communication.

I have been hoping for a prototype to make the car shows, but also have been waiting for the XPrize ... then it's put up or shut up time.

rickb

12-21-2009, 10:35 AM

I am curious to know if there are any Persu employees using the doorstep. Can somebody living near the Persu Mobility "World Headquarters" Building let us know if there is any daily activity or lights burning in the offices or are they as closed down as their communications. Maybe they took the $6,000,000.00 in venture capital and moved on to develop other concept products. Derwin.......do they at least answer your phone calls or emails?

Derwin

12-21-2009, 11:11 AM

Derwin.......do they at least answer your phone calls or emails?

I already answered this above. No, they have not answered any of my phone calls or emails, and this is very disturbing to me. :shup:

Derwin

rickb

12-21-2009, 12:22 PM

I already answered this above. No, they have not answered any of my phone calls or emails, and this is very disturbing to me. :shup:

Derwin
Sorry.............I thought they were at least answering your calls but unwilling to provide information. This means the parking lot is empty, the door is locked, and the lights are out at Persu. With no evidence of staffing........ I'm disturbed too. :shup:

Derwin

12-21-2009, 01:15 PM

Sorry.............I thought they were at least answering your calls but unwilling to provide information. This means the parking lot is empty, the door is locked, and the lights are out at Persu. With no evidence of staffing........ I'm disturbed too. :shup:

Well, don't go and jump to that conclusion! They could still very well be in the building, but just not wanting to answer MY calls. But, hey, I have no idea at this point, so what your saying could be true...I just don't know that for a fact.

Derwin

rickb

12-21-2009, 03:24 PM

Well, don't go and jump to that conclusion! They could still very well be in the building, but just not wanting to answer MY calls. But, hey, I have no idea at this point, so what your saying could be true...I just don't know that for a fact.

Derwin
I am sure they are not screening "Your" calls. Perhaps we need a California club member to verify activity or inactivity at Persu to settle me down over the Christmas Holiday. I would be more comfortable if I new there was at least one car in the parking lot and the lights are still on. Now I am really curious and fishing for answers.:fish:

Donald1800

12-23-2009, 05:38 PM

I am surprised that Derwin was able to communicate as long as he did. With their site basically non-op, no tel-con/e-mail replies and X-Prize drop out, it is very clear to me that the 'Investor Takeover' has resulted in exactly what I was afraid of way back when they took over, and Ian went elsewhere. It has just taken much longer for the "True Believers" to be forced to see the truth.

Again, I personally believe that the tilting two person 1F2R design is such a dramatic improvement in efficiency that, when coupled with either hi-tech Hybrid or Plug-in Electric power train, would totally blow away the current Detroit offerings and would cause a collapse of the Detroit Automotive manufacturing companies. They just had to kill it as quietly as possible. There was no 'investment problem'.

Donald1800

Derwin

12-23-2009, 05:48 PM

Well, now I'm beginning to look back and question EVERYTHING. I wonder if Ian seen all of this taking place, and then decided he wanted out. I have no idea, but it just seems very curious to me.

Somebody tell me WHY a company can't just take this incredible design, and begin to manufacture it, even on a small scale. Why can't some company do this? They could even put aside the "green" aspects, and just come out with a copy of the Carver, although with a few differences to make it unique.

We are now entering the year of 2010, for goodness sake. I used to think that when/if we ever reached this time, we would all be flying around in Rocketbelts, and driving vehicles similar to those in the Jetsons. Boy, was I wrong! We can't even have an American company design and build a unique tilting vehicle. What a shame.

Derwin

Donald1800

12-23-2009, 06:59 PM

This situation is similar to our medicinal suppliers philosophy - DON'T make a cure, make a 'medicine' that allows control if used for the rest of their life. And Cancer - there are many more people making their money controlling Cancer than have it. The only cures will come from independent laboratories outside of the USA, like what happened with the Salk Vaccine.

Only an independent without ties to Detroit and with money will bring this paradigm shifting design to market.

Donald1800

rickb

12-23-2009, 07:16 PM

If this commuter vehicle concept would blow away the Detroit offerings why doesn't Detroit build it and reap the profits rather than assuming Detroit killed the concept. There has to be one Detroit auto maker that would take advantage of the competitive edge. Carver has manufactured small numbers of hand built vehicles but are far to expensive for the average budget. Can we afford $40-50k hand built Persu-like vehicles? Mass production is the only affordable option. I'm hoping BMW's Simple Concept proves viable over the next 5 years. I don't think a small startup company will ever get this type of vehicle to market. As for Howard and Ian.........................I'll save that comment until Derwin officially announces the Persu Mobility's dead or alive status. I'm hoping for an alive and well report after his efforts to contact the company.

I would also comment that Elio's Marketing Director said they considered a tilting version of their concept to only find a limited market. Most drivers surveyed were interested in a high mpgThree Wheel Commuter Vehicle. The fly the road experience really didn't matter.

Derwin

12-23-2009, 07:50 PM

As for Howard and Ian.........................I'll save that comment until Derwin officially announces the Persu Mobility's dead or alive status. I'm hoping for an alive and well report after his efforts to contact the company.

I'll try to contact them very aggressively after the holidays. Hopefully I can find out what exactly has been going on, and report back here with the facts.

I would also comment that Elio's Marketing Director said they considered a tilting version of their concept to only find a limited market. Most drivers surveyed were interested in a high mpg Three Wheel Commuter Vehicle. The fly the road experience really didn't matter.

The FlyTheRoad experience didn't matter? Oh, well. I guess we really are in the minority in making this a number one priority!

Derwin

rickb

12-23-2009, 08:44 PM

Derwin

12-23-2009, 09:06 PM

Obviously the lean is our number one priority, but my point was if the general driving public doesn't see it necessary to enhance their driving experience perhaps the niche market is to limited for Detroit car manufacturers to agressively "Persu" the mass production of such a concept.

Yeah, I got your point. I still find it a shame that there isn't enough interest out there for a major manufacturer to get involved.

Derwin

WarpedOne

12-24-2009, 01:07 PM

The FlyTheRoad experience didn't matter? Oh, well. I guess we really are in the minority in making this a number one priority!
It's only logical. Most people don't want something they've never seen before, because they can't even imagine it. They want what they know and can comprehend.
Tilting three-wheelers will be all the rage AFTER someone crazy enough invests his own millions and starts producing, marketing and supporting them. That is, crazy enough to ignore all market research done by same old folks who only know to sell the same old things, telling you that people wouldn't by it. Of course they wouldn't, not hundred-thousand per year first year. Which disqualifies all existing big manufacturers. They are not interest in selling 10.000 units eating into their more costly cars.

Key is to find and angel investor that is willing to burn 10 million on this project. And than another 10 for setting up distribution channels and support structure. Chicken and egg ...

rickb

12-24-2009, 02:02 PM

I agree people would be inclined to like it if they saw it and love it if they drove it, but it doesn't seem
likely to be a crazy person to invest in the actual concept for mass production if Persu can't get a vehicle to market.

Donald1800

12-24-2009, 06:39 PM

If this commuter vehicle concept would blow away the Detroit offerings why doesn't Detroit build it and reap the profits rather than assuming Detroit killed the concept. There has to be one Detroit auto maker that would take advantage of the competitive edge.

It is my opinion that there are too many USA automotive management with financial ties to the oil industry that will do whatever is necessary to stop or significantly reduce any attempts at oil consumption reduction in the USA. They have fought every governmental attempt at fuel economy improvement which has resulted in insignificant improvements.

This is why I do not believe that Detroit will start to produce this kind of vehicle until they are dragged kicking and screaming by stockholders to compete with produced and available hyper-economy vehicles from other manufactures.

Donald1800

rickb

12-25-2009, 11:45 AM

If that's true unfortunately I won't see a mass produced tilting vehicle in my lifetime. A small startup company may hand craft small numbers for an elite few in the $45-50K range which will be out of my comfort zone. The hand built Carver on which the Persu Hybrid is based isn't affordable and apparently out of business. Unfortunately, I'm beginning to believe this type of vehicle will unlikely be manufactured in the US successfully.

The Peraves MonoTracer sales rep mentioned plans to mass produce their 2 wheel sometimes 4 high performance cabin motorcycle (leans 52 degrees) may take them to Vietnam to keep production costs down......if it happens at all. Revolution Motors mentioned out of country production options as well......if it happens at all. With Detroit's empty auto production plants and unemployment at an all time high............. what the hell! I'm counting on BMW to pull the most recent Simple concept out of Museum and into production status.

Maybe the Detroit auto company stockholders are tied to the oil industry.

wireman

12-28-2009, 04:28 PM

With Detroit's empty auto production plants and unemployment at an all time high............. what the hell! I'm counting on BMW to pull the most recent Simple concept out of Museum and into production status.

Maybe the Detroit auto company stockholders are tied to the oil industry.

That seems to me to be much more likely to come to pass, rb, due to the fact that BMW has the money, expertise and wherewithal to do the job. Plus, they would be adding a new segment to their motorcycle market (cagers) that would not detract from their other sales lines. This competition, as D1800 has said, is the most likely reason Detroit won't make em'. All we've got to do, as far as Simple goes, is get BMW's attention. Only thing is, how? Have you ever tried to reach a "Big Guy", and been shunted aside. I've tried it at the division level where the guy worked in the same building I did, and never got close!

rickb

12-28-2009, 06:28 PM

wireman

12-29-2009, 04:01 PM

I agree that seems most likely.........the ultimate driving machine from their car segment and the ultimate fly the road machine from their expanded motorcycle segment. I think any personal efforts to contact a BMW big guy would be in vain. Contacts for info on their website are very general, however, I may talk to the local BMW Sales Manager to see if they have access to get info thru the regional level.

Yes, that appears to be the most effective way for us grassroots guys to make contact. I will do the same here in Dallas, and we will see if our two voices start a trickle that turns into a flood. Any of you other FTRC'ers out there who like the Simple should do so too, EXCEPT for Derwin. I am sure we all would want him to concentrate his considerable energies toward prying some kind of info out of Persu! In that endeavor, D, you have our full support as always! BTW D, how are you doing with the MP3? Cutting any snow diddoes?

Derwin

12-29-2009, 04:20 PM

BTW D, how are you doing with the MP3? Cutting any snow diddoes?

Well, it's sitting in my garage now, since the temperature outside is averaging 5 to 10 degrees above zero, AND we are covered in snow! But that's fine with me, because I have my seat off the thing now and am preparing to send it off to Russell Cycle Parts to have them customize it at a total cost of a little over $1,000. I don't like paying that much, but I think/hope it will be worth it.

I'll get back on the think when the weather breaks in Chicagoland, which is usually around late March or April.

Derwin

wireman

12-29-2009, 04:48 PM

Figured that would be your answer D. Yea for you on the mods', and of course, doing it when the snows (and temps) have fallen is great timing! Plenty of time to get it just right before the great riding season starts in Spring.

rickb

12-29-2009, 07:52 PM

Wireman...............A flood of contacts might be an effective means to make BMW officials aware that there is major interest in their Simple concept. I suspect they will take their sweet time getting this vehicle beyond concept. The only other concern is if they do........................the $MSRP. I bet it would be well above Persu's estimated $25K. Although, if it wears the BMW badge I'll buy it because I would be assured of a high quality product with a network of established sales and service centers.

It's comforting to know Derwin will stay on point with Persu Mobility. I am hoping for good news from Derwin's efforts very soon to boost my level of enthusiasm.

wireman

12-31-2009, 03:10 PM

Me too, rb! Go Derwin!

I agree that the MSRP on the Simple will probably be quite a bit higher, but I am sure that, like you, the BMW badge will keep me more than just interested. Should a great enough demand reach the executive tower, IMHO the Simple could easily hit the market within two or three years. After all, they have a running prototype/ testbed now. They have probably learned a lot with Clever, and that group could be mobilized to run a crash engineering program to bring Simple to production very quickly. Absent a groundswell of voices raised, however, you are most likely correct that they will take their time about it, hoping that someone else will prove the market viable first.

rickb

01-02-2010, 11:48 PM

wireman

01-04-2010, 03:44 PM

Wireman...............My contact with the local BMW dealership was a bomb. I apparently know more about the Simple Concept than any of the sales staff. Their primary interest is selling current inventory BMW models with no interest in future cars. I sensed they either had no corporate contacts or no interest in any effort to make contact. Perhaps you will have better luck in Dallas over our little Sioux Falls, SD BMW Dealership mentality. Seems tough to squeeze information out of any of these car companies either startup or established.
Too bad, rb. I think I will probably have a better chance here because "Big D" is a major distribution hub for the Southwest. We've got corporate offices out the wazzoo here. I hope to be able to report by end of week on any progress made. It was unfortunate that you had to start at a dealership, and truthfully, I would have expected you to get little or no useable input from them. You were entirely right that a dealership has NO interest in anything but sales.