Tilting vehicle designs

[NateTheGreat]

The main thing that has me interested in the VV vehicle is it's tilting abilities. To that end, has anyone done any research for other type of tilting vehicle designs?

One that I found is a guy who has built a adaptation to a motorcycle. A three wheeled design with two wheels up front. I don't think this is a threat to Carver or VV, but it's interesting none the less.

http://www.tiltingmotorworks.com/sitemap.html

as I look at the setup, I am left wondering what if you added a few feet of framing between the wheels and the motorcycle frame. You could build a body, and install some seats.

Thoughts?

[rogwild]

Nate; there is a Yahoo group dedicated to 'tilting' vehicles. They mainly talk about the mechanisms and the physics, but have discussed many 'tilters' (old and new), and have pictures in their 'photo' section. There is also another group, "cabin scooters", that talks about small low power, enclosed vehicles.

[NateTheGreat]

cool, I never thought to look there. I think it would be fun as a project while we wait, anxiously for the VV vehicles to be released.

[rogwild]

Yes, sounds like a great project, or you could 'scale down' and make a 'tilting' pedal toy for the kids/grandkids (see 'tilting trikes'). :p Personally I'd love to find an RC control, V-1 like 'tilting' vehicle. Would make a great Christmas present (for when the kids visit, yeah, that's my story).;)

[AZEqualizer]

I just had to post this where it could be read, found and not buried:

" A problem with three-wheel vehicles with a symmetrical wheel layout is the tipping moment when cornering, which cannot be controlled at high speeds if the vehicle has a short wheelbase.

To solve this problem the vehicle’s center of gravity can be moved towards the center of the corner, for example by angling the complete vehicle—just as a motorcycle does when it corners.
http://www.clever-project.net/img/global/tilting_b_w.gif
http://www.clever-project.net/img/global/tilting_b_w.gif

This results in a force vector from centrifugal force in the Y direction and the weight force in the Z direction, which ideally runs through the wheel contact point of the single wheel and the centre point between the contact points of the parallel wheels.

This is the solution that is adopted by "tilting three wheelers" (TTW), although there are different technical methods of achieving it:

1.Change the camber of the two parallel wheels (front or rear) with or without tilting the vehicle
2.Angle the vehicle around a pivot relative to the axis of the two parallel wheels

Both concepts can be achieved with and without active chassis controls, and whilst the parallel wheels for concept 1 can be either at the front (for example MB F300) or rear (for example Honda Gyro), for concept 2 they can only be at the rear.

Vehicles that use concept 1 have been around since the forties (for example Ernst Neumann-Neander 1948) and this method has regularly been used for concept cars (Mercedes Benz F300 "Life Jet" 1997).

Almost every well-known manufacturer has developed working prototypes of scooter-type vehicles.

Vehicles that use concept 2 include, for example, the "GM Lean Machine" dating from 1983, the "Carver" from Vandenbrink and various scooter-type vehicles from Honda, including the Honda Gyro / Honda Stream dating from 1984. There has been a BMW concept on this basis in the BMW Museum in Munich since 1991."

This is according to BMW and University of Bath & and it is also published on the Clever_Project site.
Want to see some crash tests look at
http://www.clever-project.net/gb/gb_crashtest.htm
http://www.leftlanenews.com/bmws-clever-concept-completed.html

[RAN]

Must be nice to be BMW... to be able to design, build, and crash-test a vehicle like this and then put it on a shelf http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x139/MahBoff/sad.gif. All this one needs is More Power http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x139/MahBoff/weakbench.gif. It's beautiful!

Rick

[johnhead]

I designed and built this tilting recumbent three wheeler last year. It'l lots of fun. I'd like to put a hub electric motor in the front wheel and use the ample space in the rear to carry multiple batteries. I haven't got around to it yet. I hope you enjoy it... I have other detailed photos of it including the dual chain rear drive if anyone is interested.
Regards
John Head

[Derwin]

Hey, that is really cool! You say that you designed and built that yourself? Man, you did a great job. I'm really glad you posted that, because it reminded me of something that I was researching many years ago....

Have you ever heard of the MITKA? This is a nice little vehicle that I have been watching for YEARS, but it never made it out of prototype mode. It was a project being worked on by NIKE and other companies. Here is a video, along with some photos:

2nogKCT0kGQ

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=406&stc=1&d=1211425855

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=405&stc=1&d=1211425855

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=407&stc=1&d=1211425855

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=408&stc=1&d=1211425855

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=409&stc=1&d=1211425855

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=410&stc=1&d=1211425855

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=411&stc=1&d=1211425901

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=412&stc=1&d=1211425901

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=413&stc=1&d=1211425901

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=416&stc=1&d=1211425901

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=414&stc=1&d=1211425901

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=415&stc=1&d=1211425901


As I said, I have been fascinated with this vehicle for a LONG time now. I even contacted the company in Europe that designed it. They still own the rights to this thing, and it seems they have no plans on ever coming out with it, or at least not in the near future. But I would LOVE the opportunity to partner with somebody and get something like this developed and on the trails. It tilts.....it's got a battery back-up......and it just seems like it would be a really fun thing to ride around on weekends!

Anybody else have any information about this?

Derwin

By the way, I guess the video is not showing up. I have this video in real player. Does anybody know how to convert this to a normal movie that can be uploaded to youtube?

[rogwild]

Looks a bit like the Dutch Drymer:

http://tinyurl.com/3elysl

[Hardtime11]

Derwin, with your link I got the message, "We're sorry, this video is no longer available". There must of been an influx of viewers?

[Derwin]

I guess the video is not showing up. I have this video in real player. Does anybody know how to convert this to a normal movie that can be uploaded to youtube?

The video did not upload properly. I guess it is in the wrong format.

Derwin

[rogwild]

Derwin, on the MITKA does the whole body tilt, or just the front wheels?

[RAN]

I guess the video is not showing up. I have this video in real player. Does anybody know how to convert this to a normal movie that can be uploaded to youtube?

The video did not upload properly. I guess it is in the wrong format.

Derwin

Derwin, if you put that video up on somewhere like DivShare and send me the url, I'll try to convert it to avi for ya.

[Derwin]

RAN,

I just uploaded it. Here is the link...

http://www.divshare.com/download/4561202-fe9

Roger, The whole vehicle tilts, but not really too much because of the height of it. I think it's another example of a vehicle that allows a person to get around town without spending a fortune on gas, and ruining our environment. One this though, I don't know if our roads are set up to handle a bunch of vehicle like this................You may get run over by a Hummer or something!

Derwin

[Derwin]

RAN,

Thank you very much for converting the video. This video is of very poor quality, but it does show enough so you get the idea of what this bike is capable of. I really do like this bike because it gives us an alternative way to get around, even if it would be local. It's too bad they never produced the thing. I guess they found that there simply was not a market at the time for it. Maybe now they are changing theire minds!

Here's the video again:

2nogKCT0kGQ

Derwin

[johnhead]

Derwin, and others.
My tilting three wheel recumbent was based upon a SUN recumbent three wheeler. I modified it by "borrowing" various designs from gas powered and human powered vehicles. The rear swing arms are connected to one another via a single chain. This short chain link wraps around a sprocket that is attached to a bicycle brake disk. When starting out you hold in on the "pivot brake lever" (on the handlebars) which prevents any leaning. Once underway just release the lever and lean as you wish. As the chain connects the rear swing arms as one goes up it pulls the other one down. I also have in this desing a single shock absorber which allows the rear to absorb bumps (just visible below the tilting sprocket). One of the photos also show how you can ride on steep inclines while staying vertical...I hope someday to install a rack on the back for a battery, and a front wheel hub electric motor... Some day...

[MVRacing]

John,
That is really neat :Beer: =y:

[rogwild]

Great project, bet you LEARNED a lot!

[Derwin]

John,

Wow! That looks fantastic. I can tell that you are a very inventive person.

Did you get a chance to see the MITKA? What do you think of it? I love the idea of having the 2 wheels up front, and one in the back.

Like I said earlier, I would love to partner with somebody to design a bike like that and see how it would ride. Any thoughts?

Derwin

[TazmanianKoala]

Derwin
That is really a nice looking little vehicle.
And I'm really proud that it is in fact a Dutch design study.
I saw a well known Dutch name on it (Gazelle), so i started a search on Gazelle Mitka.
This brought me several webpages. One of them states the origin of the name: Mobiliteitsconcept voor Individueel Transport op de Korte Afstand (MITKA), translated:
Mobility concept for individual Transportation on short distances.

As far as I've seen the vehicle is not in development anymore. I cannot find any recent articles on any Dutch page.
Sadly enough, because it would be nice to travel my 5 miles to and from my daily job.

FYI: Gazelle is one of the Dutch largest bicycle manufacturers. And there are a lot of bicycles in the Netherlands: nearly 20 million on a population of about 16 million.....

[Derwin]

Yep, them sexy dutch seem to come out with some really great concepts. The MITKA is an incredible concept that SHOULD have been developed, but never was. I actually spoke with the president of the company that designed it, and I asked him if I could obtain some detailed information. His response was very short and to the point......NO. He went on to tell me that THEY "own the rights" to this vehicle, and that they are not releasing information to ANYBODY.

Well......go figure! What good is an incredible design if they have no immediate intention on developing it? I still can't figure this out. All I can think is that they want to keep this as a proprietary concept for any future plans that they may have.

If anybody can look at that vehicle, and figure out how it works, I would love to collaborate on a project to make a slightly revised version of it. I know this may be a pipe-dream, but I think it really could be done. I mean, after all, it's not a car....it's just a fancy bike! I think it is very likely that we can make something similar.

If anybody is interested, feel free to post here, or contact me personally.

Derwin

[MVRacing]

=y: I'd be willing to bet we could figure it out =y:

[Derwin]

Are you serious? If so, then we must talk!

Let's get the Remote Control Venture Vehicle complete, and then we should begin a new project that is a little more "true-to-life". From the most recent information, I think we will have a longer wait than expected for the V1. I think 2011 is probably going to be the most realistic release date, but I hope I'm wrong. If Howard stated that 2010 was the date for the California release, then 2011 is a good guess on the general release. Well, this gives us time to create some projects of our own! =y:

Maybe WE can make a little history with a 3-wheel electric tilter in the form of a hybrid bicycle! What do you think?

Derwin

[rogwild]

Derwin, if you decide to go the electric bike/trike route, be sure to check out the NuVinci CVT:

http://www.fallbrooktech.com/NuVinci.asp

It does away with the old dérailleurs, and the need to keep pedaling to change gears. They even have a model that works with a current bike electric motor.

If you're going to make a classy commuter HP-EV, might as well use top components, like hydraulic disc brakes. I also liked the idea of the MITKA using the Palm Pilot, can program different drive 'modes', GPS, audio, etc. Also taking it off the bike could 'disable the electric mode, and possibly 'lock' the pedal mode, as an anti-theft device.

I was looking at building a BugE:

http://www.blueskydsn.com/BugE_Concept.html

But they have no provision to add supplemental pedal power. It would meet most of my around town (smallish town) errands, and would be great exercise. A 'tilter' like it would be SUPER!

[Derwin]

Roger,

Thank you for that information. It is actually very amazing. I kind of like that little BugE, but I can't believe it is street-legal!

I just visited the website showing the NuVinci® tech, and it is very interesting. I never seen this before. Do you know of any vehicles that are using this right now?

Derwin

[rogwild]

Here are some bikes that are using it now (bottom of page):

http://tinyurl.com/ytgeor

I think they are slowing 'scaling-up' for larger vehicles, ATV's , NEV's, etc.

[MVRacing]

Wow, that NuVinci CVT is fantastic =y: That would make a great addition to a tilting HP EV trike.

[TazmanianKoala]

That NuVinci CVT looks very interesting. I never paid any attention to this technology. And once again it is also incorporated in a Dutch product (the Batavus cycle).
Seems like I have to visit my local bike shop once more for more info and a test drive.

[rogwild]

Here's another couple of articles on the Drymer.
http://tinyurl.com/2xqbjf
http://tinyurl.com/5mpdl2
Price is way too high for mass markets, but if they cut the carbon fiber, some of the 'frills', used modern mass production, and perhaps Chinese labor, and could cut the price to about $2,000-2,500, they might have something.

[johnhead]

So the base Sun recumbent trike retails for approx $1,000. The electric hub motor for the front wheel is $400 with controller and small battery pack. The additional Leaning hardware "Might" cost $6-700.
So for a HIGH cost of $2100 (in limited production) I can produce a e-motored, leaning three wheeler, that won't fall over at slow speed (via the anti lean brake lever). It would be low and stable and can go up to 20mph.. Hmmmm Possibly it's time to retire from my current job (of 32 years) and start over????? Naaaaaaa=n: