Voyager: Space Efficient Vehicle Concept

[rickb]

Voyager.............. since I didn't realize until a few posts ago that the SEV you refer to periodically is actually a concept vehicle that you are personally developing.............I'm curious about your progress on this endeavor. Is it an on paper concept only, models or prototypes, and you mention an interest in getting this vehicle produced in the USA. Please share any details or specifications as it looks like a very interesting three wheel/three seat non tilting design option indeed.

Sorry if you have discussed this vehicle earlier. I don't recall any previous thread regarding specifics of your SEV concept.

[voyager]

Long story. I will get into this later. I'm expecting my neighbor... Gonna discuss what the hammering and welding is all about.... ;-)

[voyager]

Story in a nutshell. Started thinking about automobiles and personal transportation five years ago, curious about the inherent inefficiency. At that time I was immobilized because of a serious back injury. I have a certain background in logistics and space efficiency. Tried to put precious time to good use. I wrote down the criteria most experts consider(ed) important as far as the way people use their cars, infrastructure, traffic, safety, energy efficiency, emissions and the living environment concerned. So, I didn't start from an engineering point of view. Subsequently, started working on vehicle layouts, exploded views and outer shell design. Asked an experienced designer to work them out. In the meantime I wrote the report on car mobility for the Netherlands Organization of Scientific Research.

Sent in the professional drawings to the annual design challenge that's held on occasion of the Detroit Auto Show 2008. The Space-Efficient Vehicle received enthusiastic response from experts as well as the public. Nothing materialized so far... I guess my time will come when governments will become really nervous about what should be done about the ever-growing unemployment in the car industry, empty assembly facilities and of course climate change. It's my personal conviction that the best thought-out vehicle concept, capable of offering tangible benefits, and the most appealing design (acclaimed as well as formally registered btw) will win out eventually. Only mass-production will make such a vehicle affordable; I am thinking of Smart Fortwo + 20% money. That would automatically imply producing more than 100,000 each year. Yikes :-|

[rickb]

Interesting story with the evolution of a 3 passenger vehicle design that could be well received by the average car buying public. Sadly, it will be a long time out if we have to wait for governments to make decisions that will impact Detroits already failed auto industry. It will take a new start-up company with vision and marketing skills to get this type of vehicle massed produced to a 100,000 units/year. At least our government's economic recovery plan includes $ for the development of alternative energy vehicles which does indicate they have acknowleged the poblems with auto industry unemployment, empty assembly plants, and environmental concerns.

To bad companies like Revolution Motors, Pursue Mobility, and Elio Motors (all with unique vehicle concepts) can't partner to share the cost of retrofitting empty production facilities, suppliers, and vacated sales and service centers across the country. That would reduce the amount of next level funding each individual company requires for production/sales/service brick and mortar by millions and millions of dollars. I know it's a dumb idea in such a highly competitive industry. Good luck with your Voyager SEV Concept.............and please provide a tilting option for the US market.

[voyager]

Interesting story with the evolution of a 3 passenger vehicle design that could be well received by the average car buying public. Sadly, it will be a long time out if we have to wait for governments to make decisions that will impact Detroits already failed auto industry. It will take a new start-up company with vision and marketing skills to get this type of vehicle massed produced to a 100,000 units/year. At least our government's economic recovery plan includes $ for the development of alternative energy vehicles which does indicate they have acknowleged the poblems with auto industry unemployment, empty assembly plants, and environmental concerns.

To bad companies like Revolution Motors, Pursue Mobility, and Elio Motors (all with unique vehicle concepts) can't partner to share the cost of retrofitting empty production facilities, suppliers, and vacated sales and service centers across the country. That would reduce the amount of next level funding each individual company requires for production/sales/service brick and mortar by millions and millions of dollars. I know it's a dumb idea in such a highly competitive industry. Good luck with your Voyager SEV Concept.............and please provide a tilting option for the US market.

What could be best described as 'semi tilt' would be far cheaper and easier to engineer and realize than a full-fledged Carver-type tilt mechanism and trolley. Use active dampers, lateral force-dependent... et voila!...

[rickb]

What could be best described as 'semi tilt' would be far cheaper and easier to engineer and realize than a full-fledged Carver-type tilt mechanism and trolley. Use active dampers, lateral force-dependent... et voila!...

I do like the idea of a semi-fly-the-road-tilt if in a min. 15-25 degree range so one could feel it and keep the cost down. I do like the overall design and look of your SEV concept.

[voyager]

Obviously, in all those years I have been talking and discussing possibilities with a number of people, ranging from traffic experts to various engineers (use of composites, high-strength steel, engines, drive trains, suspension...). All eager to contribute. Yeah, I still like its overall design, its almost quintessential three-wheel, purposeful shape, although the front could look a little less Smart Fortwo-like.

[rickb]

Obviously, in all those years I have been talking and discussing possibilities with a number of people, ranging from traffic experts to various engineers (use of composites, high-strength steel, engines, drive trains, suspension...). All eager to contribute. Yeah, I still like its overall design, its almost quintessential three-wheel, purposeful shape, although the front could look a little less Smart Fortwo-like.

If you were to put your design to a focus group test, I am betting it would be one of the most acceptable to the widest range of potential buyers because of it's more typical car-like appeal (front end design). Many of the three wheel concepts, tilting or non-tilting, tend to be more extreme designs appealing to a smaller number of buyers.

[voyager]

Thanx, RickB. A lotta times not what's best wins eventually. You know what? It's also the safest (also taking in account 'safety perception' of the driver and the passengers), the most comfortable and most practical of all three-wheelers I know.

[rickb]

Safety rating is key for me and hopefully most other consumers as well. I will likely purchase the first enclosed three wheeler to hit the market that has "personal" design appeal (tilting preferred one, two, or three passenger seats), however, if it is not packed with design integrated safety features............. no sale. If it's safe, tilts, but is lacking in design appeal...........sold.

[TazmanianKoala]

Even without the fun factor of tilting this sure would make a nice car.
Hybrid or pure electric drive would be ideal for commuter use.
This design really looks promising. I sure hope that voyager will find a way to get this vehicle to the market.

[Mike kZ]

I really like this design too! Tilting would be a big plus!

[TazmanianKoala]

Just thinking of the concept, I was wondering about 1 part of the design.
I mean the rear wheel. Would it be possible to make the rear wheel steer?
Not like fulltime active steering with the front wheels, but only for low speed parking maneuvers. When the rear wheel can steer, the turning circle would shrink enourmously.
In tight city parking this would really be a plus.
At higher speeds, say above 15 mph, the rear wheel would be locked in a straight-forward position.
I know this can only be realized when the SEV will have front wheel drive or an electric hub-motor in the rear wheel.

[voyager]

To enhance stability the SEV will/should have clustered rear wheels (or one bigger rear wheel) that co-steer (not fully) with the front wheels. Speed-dependent of course. Clustered rear wheels are preferred to prevent hydroplaning. However, the rear wheel(s) will be fixed under let's say 30 mph. Remember that each three-wheeler already has the tendency to swivel around the single rear wheel. No need for counter-steer during parking.

[voyager]

Let's use our imagination, broaden our mind, broaden the base for the process of reinventing the automobile. I feel that not a lot is happening. We all know that it's not easy to make it as a newcomer.

Now I would like to make a suggestion here. Everyone knows that the present crisis ain't over yet. It will get worse before it gets any better. In the meantime more plants will close. More people will lose their jobs. Now a lot of you took a glance at my Space-Efficient Vehicle - SEV. Personally, I think there are solid reasons and benefits for using the SEV and therefore for start developing and building my vehicle concept. You can call me arrogant, but I do think that the SEV is better than what Aptera and Elio came up with.

Not everyone will agree with me. Might even be less than 5 percent - so many people, so many tastes. But 1 out of 20 people would make it interesting indeed, wouldn't it? Now a lot of people, even politicians, already contacted me. I have been emailing back and forth with engineers. Nothing has materialized so far that really pleases me. I think that this may well be a matter of networking and pitching my concept with the right people. Not the ones who accidentally came across my ideas on the internet. Fat chance that an individual like me would succeed.

That's why I want to take the bold step of involving anyone who really digs my vehicle concept, make him or her an ambassador. If you sympathize and happen to reside in a State, region or major city where there's a lot of automotive activity (or used to be), then what you could do is write to your House Representative, contact the State Government, write to your mayor, the city department that's responsible for economic development, call the local UAW office, etc.

I know that this may well be a long shot. You might think of me as naive, stubborn or a closet idealist, but hey, you can't blame a guy for trying. I'd like to think that this is for real. That this is about concrete stuff that needs developing and manufacturing, instead of talking about virtual money that evaporates the moment the proverbial 'suit' has laid his hands on someone's savings.

You and I can literally create new jobs, help to infuse economic development, generate spin-off, draw in new investment, etc. I am prepared to make a deal that will make it worth wile to anyone who is able to link me up that will lead to the best possible development and production deal. If you happen to be interested, then contact me through my personal email address...

[voyager]

There's a guy who happens to have similar thoughts: a vehicle with the rear wheels clustered together. Alvino. His has only two seats. It's named Proxima. Check it out.

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[voyager]

Here's another Proxima from Alvino:

12121213 1214

[rickb]

Wow! I like the powerful looking Proxima concept very much. The clustered rear "Tweels" provide for both visual/functional stability. Ideally it would be a tilting EV. Thanks Voyager.

[voyager]

Here's a guy who took the whole idea of having twin rear wheels on a 'three-wheeler' a little further... They may function as propellers!

121512161217http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/images/misc/pencil.png

[WarpedOne]

Vehicle for the next BatMan.

[rickb]

Finally, a leaning three wheel concept that can get "off the ground".

[bmwgc1946]

This Proxima is Awesome. Is it for real I got fooled by a “Foam Mock up “ once. Is it Computer generated Photos? This Concept has also been out since 2008. Does anyone know how close to reality this is?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
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http://www.coolcarsandbikes.com/2009/09/proxima-car-bike-concept-best-of-both.html<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>

[voyager]

Haven't heard anything anymore. A lot of design studio's focus on a special vehicle concept as a showcase for what they are able to. I know that it takes a loooooot of extra effort to have people who matter in the industry take a look at your concept. The thing about crossovers or car bikes as they are sometimes called, is that they're too much automobile for a bike manufacturer, too much of a motorbike to be taken seriously by automakers. They need to sell at least 100,000 a year to hit break-even with a still reasonable prize tag (around $20,000).

[rickb]

Haven't heard anything anymore. A lot of design studio's focus on a special vehicle concept as a showcase for what they are able to. I know that it takes a loooooot of extra effort to have people who matter in the industry take a look at your concept. The thing about crossovers or car bikes as they are sometimes called, is that they're too much automobile for a bike manufacturer, too much of a motorbike to be taken seriously by automakers. They need to sell at least 100,000 a year to hit break-even with a still reasonable prize tag (around $20,000).

With that said, time and time again, we may as well accept the harsh reality that we will never see a tilting or non-tilting, affordable, enclosed three wheeler in mass production but only concept after concept after concept.

[voyager]

Keep the faith, RickB. I am. It's just a matter of time (3-5 years) until we see all kinds of alternative vehicles hit the road for all sorts of very sound reasons. One (established manufacturer) will need to make that first giant step for mankind however. The entrepreneurs we have seen struggling so far, are too small to put a dent in a lump of butter, as they say in Holland. A lot has to do with economy of scale, appropriate funding, etc. The big guys know. They can afford to sit back and wait, because Washington knows that they're too big to let them go belly up. That's the tragedy.

[rickb]

My faith is waning, I admit. Are you aware of the ONE ESTABLISHED MANUFACTURER that is even in the process of taking that first step? You identified the main problem which is the 100,000 units needed to make a vehicle profitable for the established manufacturer and more importantly affordable to the consumer. I seriously doubt that the driving public will accept any one concept to justify those numbers. An established manufacturer whose focus groups said if you build it we will buy it would be racing to get a vehicle into production because they are profit motivated and not intentionally keeping these types of vehicles out of their showrooms.

Also, I'm old and in 5 years my son may be trying to get the car keys out of my hands and convince me to take public transportation. That gives me an idea for a tilting three wheeler mass transit bus concept. I will maintain a thread of hope and I appreciate your optimism.

[rickb]

The only serious tilting three wheeler option that has a slim chance is the Italian K-Way Motus Xprize entry. If you visit their website there seems to be a hub of activity where people are actually working hard to get this concept to market. I am hoping they win their Xprize category. I could see driving that vehicle in 3-5 years.

[voyager]

Problem is that too many people are trying to do too many things on their own. But you already knew that. Problem is also that a lot of eco-vehicles simply look awkward, unsafe and not particularly comfortable. Anyway, here's some reading that shows you there will be more to 'automobility' in the not too distant future:
http://www.designboom.com/weblog/cat/16/view/8392/william-j-mitchell-and-mit-media-laboratory-sustainable-urban-mobility.html
http://www.freep.com/article/20100612/BUSINESS01/6120356/1318/General-Motors-aims-to-take-lead-in-China

[rickb]

They also look too futuristic.........extreme styling that may not appeal to the USA motoring public. I appreciate the not to distant future articles but it verifies my concern with the GM quote: "If we can make people believe in the vision we are presenting today............20 years is about the right amount of time to commercialize some of those technologies we are developing now."
IF, BELIEVE and 20 YEARS are they key words that make it to late for this old geezer. My driving days will be long over although on the bright side good for the environment as I watch these vehicles drive by thru my retirement home window.

[voyager]

I see what you mean. Acceptance dictates preparedness to develop alternative vehicles. The American public is very conservative. They like them big, wide and with enough oomph to move mountains. But it's a good sign that GM is contemplating new developments, albeit for non-American markets...

[rickb]

I'm an alternative energy vehicle convert and I do see greater numbers of smaller cars on US highways. $5.00/gal gas would convert the others to smaller high mpg cars. GM (GMACC) is making promising headway with the 2012 Volt as well as their future concepts. I personally like oomph but for a quick 0-60 sprint with a little extra for highway passing which I could get in a small, high performance, safe, cartoon like styling of theTango EV.

[Donald1800]

Here's more info from the unmentioned GM partner: http://www.segway.com/en-v/

Donald1800

[voyager]

There's a relationship between the pressure to do offshore oil drilling and the amount of energy (fuel) we're still using of course....
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Ever since the BP oil spill started people made comments regarding the sheer stupidity of it all, the damage done, the risks of offshore oil drilling, "too little too late", even stocks being manipulated... Now Obama calls for "New Focus on Energy Policy"....

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/16/us...s/16obama.html (http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/redirect-to/?redirect=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nytimes.com%2F2010%2F06 %2F16%2Fus%2Fpolitics%2F16obama.html)

[rickb]

There are 30,000 oil rigs in the Gulf............................who knew. The Gulf lights up like a small floating city at night. The governors of the hardest hit states oppose the short term moritorium on drilling because the oil drilling hardware will move elsewhere and that will hurt their economy. I wonder how lost oil revenues compares to lost fishing and tourism revenues not to mention the impact of a lost environment? Good news for alternative energy funding.

[Derwin]

I wonder how lost oil revenues compares to lost fishing and tourism revenues not to mention the impact of a lost environment? Good news for alternative energy funding.

I don't think this is "good news" for anything, anywhere, in any way.

The fact remains that we need oil. We need it to sustain not only our transportation, but so many other things. Alternatives have not developed to a state yet that would eradicate our need of oil, and that's just the simple truth of the matter. I'm all for alternatives to make our environment safer, but we have to be realistic about things also.

[Mike kZ]

If it wasn't for the tree huggers insisting to push the rigs further and further out into the Gulf, we wouldn't have this problem of capping the oil so far below the ocean!

[rickb]

I'm no tree hugger but my knowledge of tree huggers is that they would promote no drilling period in our fragile environments. I also bet those tree huggers were first in line to help with any cleanup efforts. Although if they truly are to blame they should be! I read that the BP rig gushing oil is close in as far as oil rigs go...............1 mile. Also, I'm no geologist but the drilling rigs are probably located above the oil reserves.

The one good thing we may get out of the tragedy is a tilting EV.

[Donald1800]

Actually, the really sad part of this is that this latest fiasco has highlighted the irresponsibility of both the Petroleum Industry and our Federal Government during this 'Self Regulated' political environment that allowed the deep drilling without demonstrated proof that they had demonstrated equipment and procedures to both prevent this kind of disaster and could mitigate the damage from unforeseen contingencies. We are now paying for this ultimate stupidity. This is just looking at the cause of the current problem. Add in the absolute inability of the Federal Government to immediately step in on day one with a disaster plan that assists in mitigating the damage to the environment and the economy, resulting in my total disrespect for and my recognition of the uselessness of our Federal Government leadership. We have been paying premium tax dollars for incompetence and inaction. I say "...I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this any more...", and "...throw ALL of the bums out..."!

Donald1800

[dr4]

I read that the BP rig gushing oil is close in as far as oil rigs go...............1 mile.

See: wikipedia
"Deepwater Horizon commenced drilling on Mississippi Canyon (http://flytheroadclub.com/wiki/Mississippi_Canyon) Block 252, referred to as the Macondo (http://flytheroadclub.com/wiki/Macondo_Prospect)Macondo Prospect is located in the United States sector of the Gulf of Mexico (http://flytheroadclub.com/wiki/Gulf_of_Mexico), about 41 miles (66 km) off the southeast coast of Louisiana (http://flytheroadclub.com/wiki/Louisiana)."

[Derwin]

Add in the absolute inability of the Federal Government to immediately step in on day one with a disaster plan that assists in mitigating the damage to the environment and the economy, resulting in my total disrespect for and my recognition of the uselessness of our Federal Government leadership.

Unfortunately, I'm forced to agree with you. The Federal Government IN THIS CASE has completely dropped the ball. I won't even go into the negligence of BP, because I think it's obvious. But the Fed's should have been all over this from day one, and they were not.


We have been paying premium tax dollars for incompetence and inaction. I say "...I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this any more...", and "...throw ALL of the bums out..."!

Amen, brother! Let's clean house on EVERYBODY in government, and start with a new batch. I guess we know this isn't going to happen, but we can try to throw as many of them out as possible!

[voyager]

To paraphrase Sarah Connor in Terminator 2: "The future always so clear to me, had become like a black highway at night"
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Still... FTR usually discusses nimble, lightweight vehicles. No biggie to turn those into 70 to 90 mpg vehicles. Many households have two cars. Why keep two massive SUV's or two big cars? 90-95% of the people drive alone in their cars. By what I call 'differentiating' car use, oil consumption could be dramatically reduced.

[voyager]

12221223
In the past Peugeot had showed several three-wheeler designs. Found this one.

[rickb]

12221223
In the past Peugeot had showed several three-wheeler designs. Found this one.


That looks interesting and functional but no Peugeot Liion design wise. You certainly have the ability to find those new concepts!

[voyager]

Did anyone notice this one? It's called the EEL.
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[rickb]

I posted the EEL some time ago........................interesting tilting design but I don't think it looks very stable with that narrow rear wheel base.

[voyager]

1231

Myers Motors says it will sell two-seat electric DuO for about $25,000 next year... This color seems strangely favorite with me... ;-)

[rickb]

Voyager..............it's your survival instinct drawing you to that orange color choice. You need a SAFE, bright, visible color to be noticed in traffic when you are driving a vehicle that small. Orange, yellow, or bright green would be considered safe, highly visible colors.

[Dutchy]

Rickb,

Sorry, but you are very wrong. The color Orange was carefully chosen in support of the Dutch soccer team in the World Cup Finals coming sunday. Orange being a part of the name of our royal family (Oranje-Nassau) and hence our national color. If you're seeing any of this on your networks you won't be able to miss the Dutch fans. You can bet CNN will have an item on this coming tuesday, when the team will be welcomed back in the Amsterdam canal parade (lots of water and ORANGE).

Ofcourse you may choose to ignore this sport and stick to your local football, or choose to support the other team in the Finals (to be determined tonight).
But I'll make it easy for you: either Germany or Spain will oppose us. Them being our big neighbors (always fun to kick their ass after they won the Finals against us in 1978) or the garlic breathing mediterraneans.

So Voyager, thanks for your support !!!2thumb:up

Dutchy

PS to give you an idea of the Dutch parade, here's a photo of the one after winning the European Championship in 1988
http://content.nos.nl/data/image/xxl/2010/07/07/170338.jpg

[rickb]

Dutchy.................if I buy an orange vehicle it would be based on the fact that it's a standout color.......................so good luck to the standout Dutch Soccer Team in the World Cup Finals on Sunday.

[voyager]

Euhh... moet dat nou die grote foto, Dutchy? Let's try to be subtle about the color orange...

[Dutchy]

Hey Voyager,
Ja die foto heb ik ook maar van de NOS site geplukt en ingecopieerd. Dus de schaal is niet van mij afkomstig... Hij is niet eens zo heel oranje eigenlijk.

Subtle yes, I only wear an orange polo, with normal clothes and without any paint, but you should see the collective madness. People are being fined for mismatched colors of their repainted orange cars and its old registration...

Next week I'll post a current photo with a bit more ORANGE !!!

[voyager]

Next week I'll post a current photo with a bit more ORANGE !!!

Eh... Let's not. Ftr is supposed to be about vehicles. If you want to, you can send one to me personally.
I didn't mind RickB's remark regarding the color orange. Not everyone has the Dutch 'orange' soccer team on his mind. RickB is a courteous person.

[rickb]

Voyager.......................Thank you for the courteous person remark. Apparently I offended Dutchy with comments I made regarding the color orange for which I apologize,however, Dutchy please post in English or send me a personal email so I know what the speciific problem actually is. I suggest you not post comments of such a sensitive/personal nature beyond vehicles. Respectfully, RickB

[Dutchy]

Guys, I don't feel offended nor wanted to offend. Will refrain comments outside subject, got a bit carried away...

Let's not worry and be happy... hopefully with nice 3wheel tilters in whaterver color carrying us away (and back).

Dutchy

[rickb]

Voyager........I thought you might make a comment about the GT3 and how it compares to your personal concept..................any similarities?

[voyager]

No comparison ;-)

Isn't that a cramped two-seater?

[rickb]

Maybe cramped but looks like a reasonably comfortable side-by-side seating arrangement with rear storage. I realize it's not your 3 seat configuration but is a space efficient EV which could be a fun commuter and easy on the environment. I thought to get some positive or negative reaction to this vehicle....................no reaction is not particularly good for the concept.

[voyager]

The more I know about the car business, the less hopeful I am with regard to newcomers (including me). Even for a reasonably established and accepted brand like Saab it will be a struggle to get noticed, to be taken seriously as an alternative to the other brands. Look at Tesla and Fisker, they typically have one point of sales and servicing in small countries like the Netherlands. Tough to scale up from that point on. You either become part of a 'bigger thing'... or you perish. Tesla is in the process of doing this - working together with Toyota, doing retrofits for the Smart Fortwo, etc. Still.... the losses so far have been massive for a small brand (300 million USD), and at some point in the future 'partners' will either choose to do it all by themselves, having learned from Tesla, or simply buy Tesla.

[rickb]

T3 Motion is a company specializing in electric vehicles. My understanding is that they have US production facilities ready to build the GT3 urban commuter vehicle right now. I only wish they were working on a three wheeler tilting version. If something doesn't materialize soon I may be forced to simply buy Tesla.

[voyager]

A delicate push might help...

1240

[rickb]

r:o:f:l:2:2:1

[voyager]

As long as you have your mind set on bringing the best three-wheeler out there, why not make a design statement? Here's the so-called EMC3 Commuter by Eco Motors:

1243

[voyager]

Looks like this forum is going to be featured as the proverbial barren landscape in a retro-future Western. Nothing happening. Once in a while a drifter passes by. However... some here may have noticed that there are a couple of new three-wheelers that have entered the arena. Lately: the Peugeot Velv, the Opel Euro One and KTM E3W. Looks like manufacturers are finally taking notice of that big void between four- and two-wheelers. But a job worth doing, is worth doing well. The real challenge is to build true passenger safety and practicality into a streamlined, lightweight body that does not look like it is only meant to transport the elderly. I am not too sure about the ones I mentioned. Here are pictures of them.
141014111413http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/images/styles/ShinyBlue/misc/pencil.png

[MadMatt]

voyager,
Interesting list - All seem to be non-tilters, but we are getting closer. I just came across this one too (another non-tilter): The Zap Alias: http://www.zapworld.com/zap-alias-electric-car

Non-tilters are deal-killers for me. I'm holding out for the tilter. At least the Persu web-site still says delivery in 2014 even though there is absolutely zero activity here. My (wishful thinking) thought is that this is just so top-secret because they are working on a deal with a major auto manufacturer, the can't share anything publicly. That's why the silence. There is (my wishful thinking again) NO WAY this isn't going into production in the next couple years.... Right???

[voyager]

The Zap Alias has been covered here a number of times. Zap gets more publicity for its failing or crooked management than introducing new EV's. I dunno about Persu. You need to invest multi millions to come with something decent that is also affordable. The Carver costed around 70,000 USD in my country, the Netherlands. Makes it only interesting for the happy few, which misses the point of having enough people use one that it makes a difference. If ever there's a time three-wheelers can make a breakthrough, then that time has arrived. And the best has yet to come. 1414

[Firedawg]

Well technically the Peugeot and the Opel are 4 wheelers as they literally have 4 wheels. Only the KTM is a true 3 wheeler. Still I do like the looks of the Peugeot. But as stated above, no tilt equals no deal.