Open Invitation to the Persu Team

[Derwin]

This is an OPEN INVITATION to ANYONE on the Persu Team...


I thought it would be good to offer an open invitation to anyone over at Persu to come here and address the many concerns that we have pertaining to their concept product, along with the concerns/doubts we have with the company.

Many things have been said over the past couple weeks that need to be addressed by somebody at the Persu company. We have completely lost faith in the company and product, and we NEED either Howard, Phil, or any other person to come forward and speak to us.

Again, I want to profess my love for the Persu Hybrid concept. That "love", though, has since warn thin over the past couple years. The honeymoon is over with Persu. The "feelings" have subsided. Now we need something substantial to keep our relationship alive.

I'll consider our recent actions as a "temporary separation" if a member of the Persu Team can come on here and give us a reason for staying with them as a company.

So.... Howard, Phil, Steve.....anybody?

Derwin

[RAN]

Derwin, I hope you're not holding your breath......

[Doug]

What took you so long?

[MVRacing]

Here, here. Persue, the ball's in your court! agr:1

[pharuan]

May 1st was the deadline for the Automotive X-Prize Data Submissions. I wonder if Persu has provided any different/updated information to them. Perhaps someone could tweet ProgAutoXP for some intel?

[Phil Oseas]

Dear FlytheRoadClub members:

Persu Mobility appreciates all of the unconditional support, enthusiasm and patience the club members have shown for Persu Mobility as well as for other alternative vehicles. While many FlytheRoadClub (the “Club”) members believe that we simply do not care about the Club or its members, that couldn’t be further from the truth.

While to you, our actions may have appeared to be callous, it is done with the best interests of Persu Mobility in mind, which should ultimately be in the best interest of the Club. We apologize that we cannot specifically address all of your questions and concerns at this time, although we try to answer all emails that are sent to ecom@persumobility.com as specifically as possible and in a timely manner.

Please remember at any given time, we could be negotiating with new investors, suppliers, service providers, government officials, etc. so any inappropriate leak of information on our part could be detrimental to Persu.

We have always considered sharing information with the Club when we deem it to be appropriate and will in fact use the FlytheRoadClub.com website as a conduit to release new information to the Club, to the extent the Club still has an interest in our company.

Sincerely,

Phil Oseas
CFO / EVP Finance

Persu Mobility Inc.
poseas@persumobility.com
www.persumobility.com

[Derwin]

Thanks for becoming a member, Phil, and thanks for posting!

Also, thanks for calling me yesterday evening, and discussing many things in regards to Persu and this club. Although I did NOT like what you were saying, I still am pleased with the fact that you considered it important enough to actually call me.

None of what you said, though, has restored my faith in the company, or reinvigorated the enthusiasm I once had for your company and proposed product. Your insistence on wanting to keep our club members from having access to a ridiculous IGES file (3D Drawing!) causes me to really question who is running the show over there! But I won't go into a tirade about that at this time.

I know you expressed concern about what I have been posting recently. Well, everything that I have said has come from my heart. Just as all that I've said over the past 2 YEARS in SUPPORT of the company came from my heart.

I'm truly hoping that you are able to share something substantial with us....SOON. Every member of this club is interested in vehicles similar to that which you are attempting to produce. WE ARE YOUR MARKET! Please keep this in mind, and treat us that way.

Sincerely,

Derwin

[3dO]

Derwin, I understand the request about the IGES file. In light of the open source vector project it could cause trouble. IF someone built a vehicle using the IGES as the frame design, had an accident and the frame failed causing an injury or worse, then Persu could be found liable in court. It is in the best interest of Persu to have this file removed from public access.

[ziggy951]

The IGES file wasnt a frame. It was a body outline. Just for clarifcation. It barely showed the basic OUTER layer of the, last known, Venture Vehicles digital prototype.


Z

[Derwin]

Derwin, I understand the request about the IGES file.

Do you know what the IGES file consists of? Are you aware that it is simply a 3D image of the SHELL? It contains ABSOLUTELY no technical information whatsoever. It contains no power train information. It doesn't even contain wheels or tilting components or information. The file is simply a basic SHELL of the BODY!

So, no, I don't think you really understand. If what you are saying is true, then ANY company can be sued for posting images of their vehicle on the internet, in brochures, and on videos. Any knowledgeable person can take these images and create an IGES or CAD file out of them, with no technical information in the file.

Actually, Ford, Chevy, and so many other auto companies have 3D images of several vehicles on their websites. If you are tech savvy, you can download these images/files, and do what you want with them.

Again, we are not talking about a technical file containing the specs of the Persu Hybrid. We are talking about a file that simply contains an INCOMPLETE IMAGE of the SHELL of the vehicle. That is all.

Derwin

[RAN]

Is there anyone at "Persu Mobility" who speaks like a human being and not like a lawyer or a robot? If so, where might he or she be?

[Derwin]

Is there anyone at "Persu Mobility" who speaks like a human being and not like a lawyer or a robot? If so, where might he or she be?

I think "he" has left the building (speaking of Ian, of course!).

Oh, Ian, how we miss thee!

Derwin

[rickb]

Phil.......welcome to the club. If it seems callous it is callous. What's good for your customer base is good for Persu Mobility. We don't expect Twitter-like progress reports, but an "everything is on schedule to move our vehicle to market" statement would be courteous and certainly doesn't jeopordize deal making and contract negotiations.

Derwin..... I personally don't think you were getting much information out of Ian either. I suspect he took some buyout dollars and went on to persu other interests that he controls. I could be wrong.

[Derwin]

Derwin..... I personally don't think you were getting much information out of Ian either. I suspect he took some buyout dollars and went on to persu other interests that he controls. I could be wrong.


Well, at least Ian kept in contact with us enthusiasts. He spent time talking with us, and interacting with us. He also posted photos, and behind the scene views of what was going on at the company, and with the progress being made on the vehicle. That's a hell of a lot more than anyone can say about the current team at Persu!

And, yes, he left the company in good shape!

Derwin

[Derwin]

IF someone built a vehicle using the IGES as the frame design, had an accident and the frame failed causing an injury or worse, then Persu could be found liable in court. It is in the best interest of Persu to have this file removed from public access.

For some reason I missed this in my first response, so I'll address it here.

There is no way on earth Persu could be sued if a person built a vehicle using the "frame" from the IGES file. As previously stated, this file contains only an incomplete 3-D view of the outer shell. That's all. There is absolutely no mention of MATERIALS that could/should be used, or anything else. There is no mention of STRUCTURE, or supporting structure, which a complete frame should have. This file is EMPTY of any and all details which would be required to build a body. Sure, some schmuck could take the image and attempt to create a complete shell, but he would need a hell of a lot more information to do it than just this file!

Lacking any structural details, and material to be used, a person could build a vehicle out of marshmellows if he wanted! This certainly would not subject Persu to a lawsuit if it fell apart!

Look, I'm just trying to introduce some basic common sense into a situation that seems to be lacking the same. Persu is so lawyered up right now, that they truly are lacking in this area of "common" sense in my opinion.

Derwin

[rickb]

Well, at least Ian kept in contact with us enthusiasts. He spent time talking with us, and interacting with us. He also posted photos, and behind the scene views of what was going on at the company, and with the progress being made on the vehicle. That's a hell of a lot more than anyone can say about the current team at Persu!

And, yes, he left the company in good shape!

Derwin
agr:1

[pharuan]

We only have to wait two more months. September is when the x-prize major inaugural events such as the announcement of teams that passed the PIAXP
judging panels and will enter the competition
events. Also there is the parade, displays and demonstrations of selected
vehicles (which I am particularly looking forward to seeing the Persu Hybrid flying the road), and of course press and media opportunities.

I shall be very saddened if Persu Mobility doesn't pass the judging panels.

[Derwin]

If they actually present a viable prototype vehicle at this event, then that will change my opinion about Persu.

At this point SEEING is believing!

Derwin

[rickb]

Pharuan has a good point. Maybe Persu will do a dramatic unveiling debut of the prototype at that event. If not my support in next years cross-US-X-Prize goes to X-Tracer Team Switzerland.

[espresso_curve]

wel;co;m;e101)) Welcome to the Club, Phil.
Well, I for one back Phil and the rest of the Persu team and will try to stay positive.cool:thu:mb1

[Derwin]

Well, I for one back Phil and the rest of the Persu team and will try to stay positive.cool:thu:mb1

I think most ALL of us "back" the Persu team, and wish them well. I've stated several times that I truly HOPE that they get things together, and come out with this incredible vehicle. Nothing has changed in regards to this.

What HAS changed is any enthusiasm that I once had for this company. And I think everyone hear can attest to the fact that I was Persu's NUMBER ONE backer and fan! But that has completely eroded away and evaporated into thin air due to the actions of Howard and Phil.

But, again, I wish them well. And the moment they provide the world with some kind of evidence that they are actually working on this thing, and making progress, this club will be actively back in their corner supporting them.

Derwin

[jeremymc7]

The one thought I had here is that some of the problem seems to be funding. Even in the video that was (is?) on You Tube they stated some 20K+ registrations and were seeking about $25M in funding. Had they been willing to take token deposits from people and only a fraction of those $20K+ people put down the cash there would have been a lot more funding to get research and production going. Ehh too late I guess?

[Derwin]

In my discussions with Persu Mobility over the past week or so, I have been really impressed with the very REAL belief that this vehicle is indeed being developed, and is absolutely NOT vaporware. You may ask: "Derwin, what in God's name caused you to reverse course so fast?". Well, it's very simple! I was given information "off the record" that is clear evidence of the fact that the Persu team is actively working on this.

What evidence? Well, as they told me, it was "off the record", and I have given my word not to repeat what was said. But I can tell you that they are working with some pretty "heavy hitters" that know how to get the job done.

If your in love with this vehicle concept, or just really like the design, then it's just a matter of TIME before your gonna get the chance to buy it. Hey, I wish the thing were available yesterday! But it seems like it's definitely going to be at least a couple years before we see them in our driveways.

In the meantime, we can talk about what is happening at the company (when they give us updates!), as well as what is happening all over the industry. For instance, the Dagne is another vehicle that I'm sure most of us really like. Although Persu is a bit ahead of Dagne in this process, I still think Dagne will be a great vehicle when/if it eventually gets to market. And Ben has been incredibly kind to the club in offering us a great deal of items to "play" with!

One final note.... Persu and the club have re-established their relationship, and will be working on some "officially licensed" merchandise very soon. This merchandise will ONLY be availble to club members!

So it's a GREAT time to be a member of this exciting club. We are now going "Back" to the original purpose of this club...."Where Persu Hybrid Enthusiasts Gather". We are, in fact, going Back to the Future!

Now strap yourself in, and get ready for a wild ride as we "FlyTheRoad" together!

Derwin

[rickb]

From someone who voted the Persu Team credible and will eventually get the Persu Hybrid to market.......... thanks Persu Team for that encouraging update. Thanks Derwin for getting that positive "off the record" information out to Persu enthusiasts. I needed that.

[Mike kZ]

You may ask: "Derwin, what in God's name caused you to reverse course so fast?". Well, it's very simple! I was given information "off the record" that is clear evidence of the fact that the Persu team is actively working on this.
Derwin

Ok Derwin, you are starting to remind me of John Kerry! Flip flopping all over the place! :)
We have heard the "off the record" thing before, and nothing came from it.

[MarkH]

Hi Mike, I know how you feel but I'm going to try to be positive about this one. My last bit of negativity gave me heartburn and I'm not going to repeat it.

You have to admit the fact that Derwin is trying to keep a positive attitude. All in all a good thing i think.

[Derwin]

Ok Derwin, you are starting to remind me of John Kerry! Flip flopping all over the place! :)
We have heard the "off the record" thing before, and nothing came from it.

John Kerry! NOOOOO!

Hey, I understand if people are a bit "dazed" by me flip-flopping over the past couple weeks. And, yes, I have done a bit of bouncing around. But I was FOR Persu Mobility long before I was "against" them! r:o:f:l:2:2:1

The thing that made me turn away from Persu was their silence, and the fact that that they were beginning to tell me what I could and could not have in this club. It started with the IGES file, and then culminated with the video animation that we had to take down. Because of all of this, I began to believe people that said it was vaporware, and would never come out.

Well, I have had SEVERAL conversations with Phil Oseas over the past 2 weeks, and the evidence provided to me clearly shows that this is NOT vaporware, and that they are actively working on developing this vehicle.

Because of this, I decided that my actions were a bit premature. So we have now returned to being a Persu Hybrid enthusiasts club. I mean, realistically, the change only lasted about 2 weeks, so it shouldn't be a big deal. And, after all, this club was created for the primary purpose of being a Persu Hybrid gathering place.

Let's put it this way.... When the Persu Hybrid finally gets to market, and there are thousands of owners all over America, I don't want to look back and REGRET changing the purpose of this club. I want to be able to approach the owners with confidence in saying that we are the oldest and ORIGINAL Persu Hybrid club in existence. We will be THE premiere club for all owners of this vehicle. That is what this club was created for.

So, again, I am sorry if my actions over the past 2 weeks have disturbed anyone. But this club will now always remain what it has been from the start...A place where Persu Hybrid enthusiasts/owners can gather.

Derwin

[WarpedOne]

And Dagne?

[Necoras]

Yeah, video of a prototype or I'm not convinced. Just my two cents.

[jmilton]

As someone that has worked in the financial industry for more years then I care to remember, and having been part of acquisition and merger teams, I can understand why Persu may have had to suddenly become silent even to the point of not being able to say why they have become silent. If any one of their potential investors is a publicly reporting company then any statement from Persu could be considered a "Forward Looking Statement" which the SEC could determine as misleading. Add to that the Non-disclosure agreements that get put in place, especially once the lawyers get involved (I hate lawyers...sorry that is the ex-cop in me) it can get real messy. I worked on one acquisition for 5 months where only three people in the company knew anything about it until a month before it happen. After reading Derwin's post from yesterday I have a little more faith that the product is real.

Joe

[Derwin]

And Dagne?

As a club which is (and always has been) centered around the Persu Hybrid, talking about the Dagne vehicle, as well as others, is welcome and even encouraged. As you can see if you go into our "forums" section of the club, there are TWO main areas there...One for the Persu Hybrid, and the other for Revolution Motors and the Dagne. I hope we can all discuss BOTH vehicles. Nothing has changed about that.



Yeah, video of a prototype or I'm not convinced. Just my two cents.

Well, as it was explained to me, Persu had no real "need" for spending time, money, and other resources on building a prototype. They have the Carver as their working prototype. And the tilting technology is PROVEN and has been in use for years. So, according to what they are saying, they actually DO have a working prototype which uses the tilting technology, and that is the Carver. Also, just as a reminder...Ian posted a video to Youtube (which was quickly taken down!) that showed the "Alpha propulsion" unit that they created. Here is his email to me at that time:


Hi Derwin,

It seems I jumped the gun. Could you place a hold the link for the Alpha propulsion video on the club site? We’re not quite ready to announce this yet. We’re coordinating this with another announcement, and would greatly appreciate your cooperation.

Thanks.

Cheers,
-- Ian

Look, there are many reasons why I was upset with them a couple weeks ago, and there are now many MORE reasons why I have returned to being a Persu Hybrid enthusiasist.

All I can do is ask you all to be patient, and wait to see what this company produces. As I said before.... I really love this concept vehicle, and hope it comes out sooner rather than later. thu:mbs:up:22

Derwin

[ziggy951]

If I wanted this much drama I would watch one of those dumbass "reality" shows.

/sigh



Z

[JoeU]

Or a "soap": "As the Pursu Tilts"

[WarpedOne]

So, according to what they are saying, they actually DO have a working prototype which uses the tilting technology, and that is the Carver.

Translation: We don't have a prototype for Persu Hybrid (yet).

[rickb]

I agree Persu technically has a running, working prototype with Carver's technology. All they really need to do is adapt the new hybrid or EV drive system and transform the new body style which is much like what Phiaro accomplished. Persu is tweaking the design/drive system and is closer to production than we realize. We will see the ready to roll finished concept at the 2010 Auto Shows. What I'm not certain about is who they are partnering with to build it (BMW?) or where they stand as an X Prize competitor.

[jeremymc7]

I agree Persu technically has a running, working prototype with Carver's technology. All they really need to do is adapt the new hybrid or EV drive system and transform the new body style which is much like what Phiaro accomplished. Persu is tweaking the design/drive system and is closer to production than we realize. We will see the ready to roll finished concept at the 2010 Auto Shows. What I'm not certain about is who they are partnering with to build it (BMW?) or where they stand as an X Prize competitor.

I really hope soon. I'll be needing a new toy soon and they're top on my list. But if they're not shipping or even quoting an estimated ship date then I'm sorry to say but my money will go elsewhere.

[Derwin]

Translation: We don't have a prototype for Persu Hybrid (yet).


Well, if they have a working prototype for the tilting technology, and they have already built the Alpha propulsion unit, then I would say they have a "working prototype" that encompasses everything.

Also, I think you need to "read between the lines" on what their trying to say. :shup:


Derwin

[jeremymc7]

Someone just give them $25M already so we can get this thing on the road in less then 24 months. PLEASE ! ! !

[rickb]

Someone just give them $25M already so we can get this thing on the road in less then 24 months. PLEASE ! ! !
If Persu is putting together a deal with a big gun auto manufacturer they already have the funding and backing they need to get this vehicle to market. Get ready to spend that money you are saving for that new toy fix.

[pondlife]

BMW are apparently about to anounce an 'electric vehicle' ( http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/07/16/bmw_preps_e_scooter/ ) ... it appears that this may be a scooter but it would be a real shame if they didn't proceed with the CLEVER concept vehicle they pumped SO much money into ( https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/pressclub/p/pcgl/tvFootageDetail.html?docNo=PF0002508 )

It's probably wishful thinking but perhaps there's a link between Persu's secrecy/possible pending announcement and the above BMW announcement?? :D

OK, I'm a dreamer ;)

[rickb]

BMW are apparently about to anounce an 'electric vehicle' ( http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/07/16/bmw_preps_e_scooter/ ) ... it appears that this may be a scooter but it would be a real shame if they didn't proceed with the CLEVER concept vehicle they pumped SO much money into ( https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/pressclub/p/pcgl/tvFootageDetail.html?docNo=PF0002508 )

It's probably wishful thinking but perhaps there's a link between Persu's secrecy/possible pending announcement and the above BMW announcement?? :D

OK, I'm a dreamer ;)
Since BMW Design Works did body styling for Persu and BMW's CLEVER project was so close in concept to the Persu Hybrid and Persu is working on a contract with a big gun manufacturer I'm having the same dream.

[ziggy951]

I am also hoping for that. And I am hoping they arent in agreements with one of the idiotic US companies.



Z

[rickb]

I am also hoping for that. And I am hoping they arent in agreements with one of the idiotic US companies.



Z
agr:1But on second thought maybe we should be hoping it is GM since we taxpayers own 60% of that company.

[Mike kZ]

John Kerry! NOOOOO!

Hey, I understand if people are a bit "dazed" by me flip-flopping over the past couple weeks. And, yes, I have done a bit of bouncing around. But I was FOR Persu Mobility long before I was "against" them! r:o:f:l:2:2:1

Derwin

http://album.hybridz.org/data/500/daily_doozy_19_.jpg r:o:f:l:2:2:1

[pondlife]

Since BMW Design Works did body styling for Persu and BMW's CLEVER project was so close in concept to the Persu Hybrid and Persu is working on a contract with a big gun manufacturer I'm having the same dream.

I didn't know about BMW Design Works doing the body styling for Persu... hmmm, very interesting :)

I'll keep my fingers crossed

[rickb]

I didn't know about BMW Design Works doing the body styling for Persu... hmmm, very interesting :)

I'll keep my fingers crossed
As Derwin stated and I saw it too, the old VentureOne Website actually had BMW Design Works listed as a "Partner" for a time prior to The Persu Mobility name change. The continued partnership to actually produce the Persu Hybrid is at best wishful thinking, however, it would be a win, win for Persu, BMW, and most importantly us diehard enthusiasts.

[bayerjv]

Have been following this product/company for a quite a while now. You just never know what corporate behind the scenes events are taking place. This may be a true vapor ware product and time will tell. Their window of opportunity has not closed yet so there should be a good market for these things. Love the concept and the looks. The only issue would be what states they will initially sell the it. I am in Texas and I know quite a few people who would purchase one including myself. But can not wait forever and there is only so much cash to go spend on transportation -- even something that would be fun -- though the fun factor does allow some flexibility. Bring it on! :burning:rubber:

[rickb]

Come on Persu Team..........hook up an information IV to Derwin so we can get some enthusiasm and life back into this club............some reason to exist or we all lose. It can even be confidential (for Derwin only)............just something to give us a sense of confidence that it will happen.

[jeremymc7]

Come on Persu Team..........hook up an information IV to Derwin so we can get some enthusiasm and life back into this club............some reason to exist or we all lose. It can even be confidential (for Derwin only)............just something to give us a sense of confidence that it will happen.

With things supposedly moved from original 2010 till 2012 and with no real official updates from them here or on there website. Not to mention they don't do press releases, email blasts or even respond to email request pretty much all the enthusiasm I had for the product has faded. When 2012 rolls around I will rethink but otherwise I'm reviewing other options and will for sure be spending money elsewhere before 2012 rolls around, unfortunately.

[Peter]

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font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoChpDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; mso-default-props:yes; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Calibri; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} .MsoPapDefault {mso-style-type:export-only; margin-bottom:10.0pt; line-height:115%;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> guys, i know why pursu's not saying anything... THEY'RE OUT OF MONEY! accordingly, they haven't done much recently except try to get more:

http://www.floyd-associates.com/pm.pdf

http://www.floyd-associates.com/articles-06-23-2009.htm


And i doubt they're dead in the water - if they were killing the project they would cut spending that wouldn't directly help them sell whatever marketable technology they have and recover some of their losses. I would include lobbying in this kind of spending, and apparently they spent $50k on that recently:

http://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?lname=Persu+Mobility&year=2009


They're cash strapped like everybody else, but that doesn't mean they're dead, just that they're hibernating, and until I hear they've filed for bankruptcy or sold their technology I'm prepared to hold out for a launch. I don't really care about them particularly, I just want to drive one of these things, and if Ben and the guys at Dagne beat 'em to it then they'll get my money. That said, the pursu guys have done quite a bit with a technology that already has quite a few iterations behind it, and given that they're actively fund raising and lobbying I'm not sold that they're dead in the water just yet.

I figure somebody will now remind me that we haven't heard any real info from them in a long time, but I don't really expect that. What Ian used to do when would go on and tell us about the bolts they selected for the rear suspension was awesome and I loved reading about and feeling like I was part of the process, but at the end of the day these guys need to make 25,000 vehicles, not appease 1,000 forum frequenters. Sure following the process ain’t as much fun as it used to be, but I’d trade 30 seconds behind the wheel for 30 years of updates.

[rickb]

I think Derwin's point is that it's not as much fun with no periodic updates and when you are putting in as much time and money as Derwin...............the only real personal gain or satisfaction is a process that shows progress and positive feedback or what's the point. Actually, 2012 launch is almost to far out to maintain the necessary level of committment one needs to do that job. C'mon Persu........breathe some life back.

Start with a Persu Pure Electric Version and apply for some of the new Obama funds available for developing electric vehicles.

[jeremymc7]

Start with a Persu Pure Electric Version and apply for some of the new Obama funds available for developing electric vehicles.


See now, I would be up for that. Given the current infrastructure I can understand the justification for hybrid but I would be more then ecstatic to ditch the gas component altogether if I could have 100% electric as long as I can get a minimum of 100 mile range. It would finally give me justification to install solar panels on the roof and switch everything gas in the house over to electric.

I can understand being able to charge by gas or electric and give the option of 600-800+ mile range when gassed and charged up but I really want to ditch the gas motor altogether.

[rickb]

The pure electric ETracer numbers are: 200 mile range, recharge time in as little as 20 minutes, 155 mph. Excellent range, I could recharge on lunch breaks on a cross country tour, and 155 mph way to fast. I bet the components would fit into the Persu. That would be a sweet ride.

[jeremymc7]

Start with a Persu Pure Electric Version and apply for some of the new Obama funds available for developing electric vehicles.

Anyone have a total breakdown of where it's all going. This is what I've got thus far.


MILLIONS
GM 240.0
Ford 92.7
Chrysler 70.0
Johnson Controls 300.0
A123 Systems Inc 249.1
EnerDel 118.5

Subtotal 1,070.3

Unknown 1,329.7

Total 2,400.0

Let's hope Persu got some of the $1.3B remaining.

[rickb]

Maybe Persu will let us know in their next update. I would hope both the Persu Hybrid and Dagne would qualify for this most recent appropriation for EV development.

[RAN]

What next update? r:o:f:l:2:2:1

[ziggy951]

Anyone have a total breakdown of where it's all going. This is what I've got thus far.

MILLIONS
GM 240.0
Ford 92.7
Chrysler 70.0
Johnson Controls 300.0
A123 Systems Inc 249.1
EnerDel 118.5

Subtotal 1,070.3

Unknown 1,329.7

Total 2,400.0

Let's hope Persu got some of the $1.3B remaining.


Lets hope instead that all of that money is returned to tax payers that didnt want it to happen in the first place.


Z

[rickb]

I think it would be acceptable to use some of the $1.3 billion balance to help finance the production of the Persu Hybrid and Dagne (Vehicles we actually want to drive) and give the rest back. My selfish opinion and I'm sticking to it.

[rickb]

What next update? r:o:f:l:2:2:1


r:o:f:l:2:2:1

[wireman]

Derwin, the change to parallel MUST add more weight and volume to the vehicle. With the added mass comes a different solution to the dynamic inertial moment. A quote from Robert Heinlein: "Designs which look perfectly functional on paper sometimes kill test pilots." For proof, you have only to look in the forum, and find that photo of the CLEVER up on two wheels. That's the reason you build a running prototype of the actual vehicle! The other reason Jmc7 and I want to see a prototype is, like all of us here at FTRC, we want to SEE SOMETHING

[rickb]

Derwin, the change to parallel MUST add more weight and volume to the vehicle. With the added mass comes a different solution to the dynamic inertial moment. A quote from Robert Heinlein: "Designs which look perfectly functional on paper sometimes kill test pilots." For proof, you have only to look in the forum, and find that photo of the CLEVER up on two wheels. That's the reason you build a running prototype of the actual vehicle! The other reason Jmc7 and I want to see a prototype is, like all of us here at FTRC, we want to SEE SOMETHING

I believe the CLEVER issue was not weight related but an engineering issue with the computer assisted tilting mechanism. Is it possible that the Persu's new and improved version of the Carver could weigh less based on substituting that heavy old Dihatsu engine and using lighter alloy components. I could be wrong.

If Carver decides to offer a 2010 Carver Hybrid with a new and improved body style to the USA market do they need to build a prototype? If they do from a safety perspective they do. If they don't it's a waste of time and money.

[willk]

Lets hope instead that all of that money is returned to tax payers that didnt want it to happen in the first place.


Z

agreed

[wireman]

Is it possible that the Persu's new and improved version of the Carver could weigh less based on substituting that heavy old Dihatsu engine and using lighter alloy components. I could be wrong.


No, you are absolutely right. It is possible to reduce the weight, but remember, we are not talking weight but mass/inertia. An example: If Persu's team finds an engine that is 60 or 80 lbs. less, but, say the controller for the electric motor has to go somewhere else, and that somewhere is going to change the center-of-gravity, then the geometry must be changed to compensate.

[wireman]

If Carver decides to offer a 2010 Carver Hybrid with a new and improved body style to the USA market do they need to build a prototype?

Here IMHO, you have a common perception, which was fostered by Ian early on and referenced ever after, that the Persu Hybrid is an added to/re-skinned Carver. IT IS NOT! I don't know if Ian was deliberately false or not. I tend to think he just got carried away with the prospect of a few tweaks, and voila!..... a fantastic new concept hits the road! From that came all the unmet timelines, and frustration the FRTC has had to endure. WE ENDURE! WE WANT A PERSU.

You see, THE ONLY THING that PM obtained rights to produce in the U.S. was the DVC technology! They can't simply faithfully reproduce anything else about the Carver, but must design and integrate the frame, running gear, cabin/propulsion module tilt bearing, CG geometry (especially if the overall size changes, due to more space requirements), a host of other things. Persu can imitate, but not duplicate, so they had a base to start from.

[WarpedOne]

For proof, you have only to look in the forum, and find that photo of the CLEVER up on two wheels
Yes, I'm afraid this devil awaits me too. I hope I will avoid it by having two front wheels about 50 inches apart.

Has anyone seen Clever's dimensions? What was its width, length, mass?

[rickb]

No, you are absolutely right. It is possible to reduce the weight, but remember, we are not talking weight but mass/inertia. An example: If Persu's team finds an engine that is 60 or 80 lbs. less, but, say the controller for the electric motor has to go somewhere else, and that somewhere is going to change the center-of-gravity, then the geometry must be changed to compensate.

I think the idea is to build a strong light weight Persu with quick response and high mpgs. I agree with you 100% that the weight and balance issues are critical to a safe vehicle. My guess is though from a design/engineering/testing standpoint all of those considerations can be met and tested via computer design software before the first vehicle rolls off the line. Then you and I could volunteer to continue testing under real world driving conditions.:)

I continue to believe that a tilting vehicle exists in the Carver with years of proven technology and that it is an updated design version of the Carver that PM will ultimately manufacture with Persu Badging as a Hybrid or EV.

[jeremymc7]

Has anyone seen Clever's dimensions? What was its width, length, mass?

Here you go, easilly available on the web in many places.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carver_%28automobile%29

The dimensions are 3.4 m (11 ft) long by 1.3 m (4.3 ft) wide by 1.4 m (4.6 ft) high, giving it a low slim profile, similar to a motorcycle. It weighs only 640 kg (1,400 lb), about half the weight of a medium size car or three to four times the weight of most motorcycles.

[WarpedOne]

Thanks, but I was asking for Clever's dimensions, not Carver's.

[jeremymc7]

Thanks, but I was asking for Clever's dimensions, not Carver's.

Whoops. Sorry about that. My bad.

Info for CLEVER is still out there, BUT, doesn't really mean anything since it's just a concept and doesn't have all the safety equipment, driver options, etc in it yet. Even the design is just for concept purposes.

For what it's worth here it is.

9.8 ft long
3.3 ft wide
4.4 feet high
weighs 870lbs.

[rickb]

Here IMHO, you have a common perception, which was fostered by Ian early on and referenced ever after, that the Persu Hybrid is an added to/re-skinned Carver. IT IS NOT! I don't know if Ian was deliberately false or not. I tend to think he just got carried away with the prospect of a few tweaks, and voila!..... a fantastic new concept hits the road! From that came all the unmet timelines, and frustration the FRTC has had to endure. WE ENDURE! WE WANT A PERSU.

You see, THE ONLY THING that PM obtained rights to produce in the U.S. was the DVC technology! They can't simply faithfully reproduce anything else about the Carver, but must design and integrate the frame, running gear, cabin/propulsion module tilt bearing, CG geometry (especially if the overall size changes, due to more space requirements), a host of other things. Persu can imitate, but not duplicate, so they had a base to start from.
The DVC technology is all they need. BMW Design Works and their Ultimate Driving Machine Designers have handled everything else with ease. I believe all of the design and engineering work is complete and they are ready to roll with the appropriate funding or automotive partner.

[wireman]

Then you and I could volunteer to continue testing under real world driving conditions.:)


Yes we could, and would, and will, someday!=y: It is true that CAD/CSIM has progressed incredibly far since the Dean of SF left us, so I do not doubt that Persu could be willing to gamble on the attempt to produce a production model without a true prototype as the base template. I, like the guys at RevMo, am OLD SCHOOL (54 actually) and I certainly would'nt do it that way. Because of my background, and the performance to date of PM and RM, I would bet that if you gave both of them the 47 megabucks RM says it needs to finish the design and go to production, RevMo would beat Persu to SOMBODY'S driveway. Unless of course, Persu already has that real prototype stashed away in their own AREA 51. Based on how they've behaved so far, I wouldn't put it past them

[rickb]

wireman........optimistically speaking, I think they have built and are testing the Persu Hybrid. I am certain the initial $6Mil would get 4 or 5 vehicles built in a prototype engineering lab somewhere in California. As much as I like RM's Dagne they have much more work ahead of them and I don't think they will win the race. I think Dagne is potentially a more stable/safer vehicle with the 2F1R configuration. I hope to own one of each just to show my support. Someday soon!

[WarpedOne]

Info for CLEVER is still out there, BUT, doesn't really mean anything since it's just a concept and doesn't have all the safety equipment, driver options, etc in it yet. Even the design is just for concept purposes.
...
3.3 ft wide
...

This is crucial info for me nevertheless. So, Clever is 30% narrower than my vehicle when going straight, and even narrower when doing cornes. I was afraid of that "internal wheel raising" problem in quick cornering manouvers that Clever exhibited. I guess its rear end is just too narrow.

[rickb]

I made a statement earlier saying I felt Persu didn't need a prototype and that they had a concept prototype or proof of concept in the Carver. They really aren't building a new concept vehicle but building a redesign of an existing vehicle as a hybrid. What they do need, however, is a "production prototype". The production prototype is what they have built during their long, understandable period of silence. The production prototype is the exact specification of the mass produced vehicle that is going through rigorous testing while making making the necessary tweaks. I only wish the Persu Team wil verify that belief via media announcements soon.

[wireman]

Yay BO rickb! I am hoping that that is EXACTLY what is going on! Aint' SEMANTICS great! Sorry about that, PRODUCTION P/T is what I meant. And we all want that verification, but the lawyers are involved with Persu now, and have been for a long time, and the only way to get them out of our hair is to hang em'. I doubt we will be invited to participate again until the first model rolls.

[rickb]

I don't know if we can blame the lawyers totally. I think when any new vehicle is in that production p/t stage of development there tends to be complete secrecy/silence until one of the auto magazine photographers gets a sneak shot of the vehicle during a testing run.............. just before the auto show debuts spring or fall.

Ian & Howard did a great job of promoting the VentureOne to the point of the birth of the FTRC. They used the enthusiasm of the enthusiasts to validate a USA market for this type of vehicle as a tool to sell investors. Matter of fact they should probably give Derwin the first vehicle to roll off the assembly line for his direct involvement with the FTRC website promotion. RM and the boys will do the same by initially sharing info, asking for input and support of potential customers and then once the investors come on board and things start to gear up for the actual production cycle.....dead silence. That's the way it is. The sooner the better.

[Derwin]

They used the enthusiasm of the enthusiasts to validate a USA market for this type of vehicle as a tool to sell investors. Matter of fact they should probably give Derwin the first vehicle to roll off the assembly line for his direct involvement with the FTRC website promotion.

Hey, I'm all for that! LOL! 2thumb:up

Derwin

[slowblast]

For the most part manufactures are not building proto types any more, because they use CAD/CAM and Simulation software. But you can bet the first units will be driven hard and things will be tweaked, right into the production runs.
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As for this silence???…. I don’t remember Telsa going mute like this… To the contrary, I remember them continually, and openly, stating what problems they where encountering. Like gee, were have’n difficulty finding a source for our motor production, so we’re start-up our own side company... And, oh by the way test on new trans won’t meet our target 0-60 spec… without exploding from the motor torque, so here’s our short and long term solutions… And well there are some control issue with the motor software during hard cornering that needs some (a lot) of tweaking and testing… I’m sure we didn’t get all the little details… But then again, I guess when your taking down payments it’s a different story.
<o:p> </o:p>
The point here is, there is a difference between being protective of IP, and marketing strategies. And, this silence.
Let see, how many direct competitors are in the running to be first to market?… Oh ya Zero… I forget… Unless Honda and Yamaha is being even more secretive… That would be a first!
But yea, Maybe if your hoping to get some GOV bucks out of the deal. It’s not such a good idea to get to many stories going, on how they’ll be spent.
Or, is it a goal of taking the Auto X prize by total and complete surprise, just someone(s)’s head-trip.

[rickb]

Persu Team....................How is the secret testing of the Persu Hybrid Production Vehicle coming along? Which auto manufacturer did you partner with to mass produce it. Finally, when is the first Fly the Road Club Limited Edition Persu Hybrid scheduled to hit the market?

[rickb]

Persu Team................It is comforting to know that you are all busy with testing and tweaking the Persu Hybrid Production Vehicles. Please let us know how its going when you have more time. Most of us would prefer a video along with your comments.

[Derwin]

I really don't know what is going on behind the scenes at Persu. I do know, though, that it is utterly frustrating for those of us enthusiasts that want to know every detail.

As always, it's just a waiting game. But waiting would be SO MUCH easier if we could hear something.....ANYTHING, from the Persu Hybrid Team.

You all know that if I hear anything from them, you all will be the first (or second!) to know.

Derwin

[Peter]

Not sure if this is old and someone already noted this (in which case apologies for the redundancy), but they've now also own the the web address http://persumobility.net/ and if you search for "persu mobility" you get that web page rather than the old flytheroad.com page

[JoeU]

Peter, Unless someone else disagrees, that is the first that we heard of it.

[Derwin]

Peter, Unless someone else disagrees, that is the first that we heard of it.


That domain was announced right after the name change took place. The domain points to the exact same website.

Nothing new about this.

Derwin

[rickb]

Sometimes I wonder what the Persu Team actually does all day long after they report to work in the morning. They no doubt start their day with a morning meeting, coffee, and discussion about any issues on the Club's Open Invitation to the Persu Team Thread but, what happens after the meeting adjourns?

Since you read this thread daily.............I wonder if you could post any job openings available at Persu Mobility perhaps something in Public Relations?

[jeremymc7]

Sometimes I wonder what the Persu Team actually does all day long after they report to work in the morning. They no doubt start their day with a morning meeting, coffee, and discussion about any issues on the Club's Open Invitation to the Persu Team Thread but, what happens after the meeting adjourns?

Since you read this thread daily.............I wonder if you could post any job openings available at Persu Mobility perhaps something in Public Relations?

I'd been wondering the same thing myself for quite a while now. I don't know how many people are there and I'm sure a chunk do work 9 to 5 and Mon to Fri. But others must have nothing to do half the day.

=)

[Derwin]

Since you read this thread daily.............I wonder if you could post any job openings available at Persu Mobility perhaps something in Public Relations?

LOL! That's a good one! r:o:f:l:2:2:1

They definitely need a person working public relations for them, that's for sure.

Derwin

[rickb]

Persu Team...................Since it is obvious that you are legally bound and unable to provide any progress updates or technical information regarding the Persu Hybrid is it possible that you could provide us with an approximate time frame as to when you might legally be able to provide that type of information perhaps via upcoming XPrize or Spring 2010 Auto Show announcements.

I could ask that question on your company website but your webmaster is probably overwhelmed by activity and since you check this thread daily it seems more conventient to ask questions here. Thank you for any consideration.