Tesla Shake Up

[Mark Tomlinson]

Big changes going on over at Tesla. New CEO, billionaire and race car driver Ze'ev Drori, takes the reigns as the new CEO. But, ho hum, that's nothing compared to the really big news. Founder Martin Eberhard is out - even before the first Roadster hits the streets!

People are reeling over this. It's been clear for a while that Chairman of the Board Elon Musk and Martin haven't seen eye to eye on everything, but no one thought it would come to this. Martin has been the visionary, spokesman, and public face of Tesla since he founded it with Marc Tarpenning in 2003. Elon Musk is the first and biggest investor. I guess it's just a case of "he who pays the piper picks the tune".

Very little detail with a comment from Martin is at AutoblogGreen (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/12/02/martin-eberhard-comments-on-his-departure-from-tesla/).

[PHEVadvocate]

I don't think you will find a link to this on the TESLA Motors site:

http://teslafounders.wordpress.com/

:eek:

[Mark Tomlinson]

I don't think you will find a link to this on the TESLA Motors site:

http://teslafounders.wordpress.com/

:eek:
Actually, you will! Many of the frequent commenters on the blog are Martin Eberhard fans, as am I. A number of them have posted the address and the moderator has let it stand.

P.S. Many have recommended to Martin, now that he has some free time, he may want to do a little consulting work for VV.

[randi]

http://www.news.com/8301-11128_3-9849410-54.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

Not a good start for Tesla in the new year.

"26 employees, including some vice presidents, have recently been cut from the company. That's about 10 percent of the company. The cuts come after Tesla was forced to delay the release of its car because of problems with the transmission and after new CEO Ze'ev Drori (http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9838076-7.html) came to the company."

Check the link for the whole article.

[Billy]

I don't see why Tesla insists with a 2 speed transmission, do we really need to race everywhere? I find it retarded to begin with, why introduce this car 1st for a small fee of $100k+ $8k for "service call" fees if you live outside their service area.

I think this is where Aptera shines, they're going to build a fleet of Dodge Sprinter bio-diesel vans to service customers' cars. :cool: I wouldn't mind a Tesla, but some of the things they're doing is questionable:(

[AZEqualizer]

Tesla is reporting that through research and development of the WhiteStar sedan they happened to run across a solution for the drop top. They are dubbing it DriveTrain 1.5 and it should be submitted to testing next week.

DriveTrain 1.5 doesn't appear to be an easy fix as it involves replacing the Roadster's entire powertrain. The electric motor is to be changed from an air-cooled motor to a more powerful liquid cooled unit and the power electronics will also be altered to supply the necessary increased current flow to the new motor. This adjustment will allow for the use of a single speed transmission with a reduced gear design. The transmission is being developed and produced with the assistance of engineering firm Ricardo, which produces, among other things, the Bugatti Veyron's dual clutch gearbox.

Read the article here over at Autobloggreen.com (http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/01/23/breaking-tesla-has-a-solution-for-their-transmission-woes-get/)

[AZEqualizer]

Tesla Motors -

The San Carlos, Calif.-based company will produce two basic types of its Whitestar sedan, due toward the end of 2009. One will run completely on batteries. The other will be a range-extended vehicle, or REV, CEO Ze'ev Drori said in an interview. In an REV, a small gas motor recharges the battery pack while the car is being driven. The battery pack on these types of cars only goes about 40 to 50 miles on a charge, but because it gets recharged while driving, the range of these cars will be longer.

Whitestar is expected to sell in the $50,000 to $70,000 range, depending on the configuration (some of the all-electric cars will have bigger batteries than others and vary in price, for instance).

This according to an article on CNet News. (http://www.news.com/8301-11128_3-9863202-54.html)

[Derwin]

What I don't understand is......Why in the world would anybody pay $70,000 for an electric vehicle that is really no different in form than other vehicles on the market. There is no "fun factor" to them, and they are really NOT saving any money on gas since the cost of the vehicle completely absorbs any possible savings!

Well, I guess there are people that simply have money to spend in order to make themselves "feel" like they are fighting global warming by buying these cars. Go figure.

Derwin

[AZEqualizer]

The current in thing is to be green as a status thing. Toyota did a study and found out that one of the reasons the Prius did so well was because it was readily recognizable as a green vehicle and owners wanted other people to recognize their "Green" purchase for being in your face Green.

It's the in thing to be Green - look at GM saying I don't care if it is $40k I want the Volt to beat Toyota to market so we can say we are first. Even some of the really High dollar companies are getting in on it
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2008/01/08_naias_238.jpg

On the other side of the fence is that the newer technology is expensive ... and I don't know about no fun factor to them... that is a matter of perspective.

[Mark Tomlinson]

Actually, Derwin, I'm probably going to have both a PHEV V1 and a BEV WhiteStar sitting in my drive within the next few years. And it's not just the "green" factor, although that's a significant part of the equation.

My wife and I are both big believers in electric drive vehicles. By electric drive, I mean series hybrids rather than parallel like the Prius or GM Green Line. We are both committed to reducing our oil intake for environmental and political reasons, and we believe that electric drive is the way to go. However, there is no way I would drive what Martin Eberhard refers to as "punishment cars" - and I lump the Prius in there because I don't like the way it looks.

And another concern of mine is more pragmatic. Electric drive vehicles need less maintenance and will last longer. There hundreds less moving parts. Even the brakes wear longer because regeneration is primarily used to slow the vehicle.

Then there's a part of me that doesn't want to perpetuate the ICE because, well, it's simply insane when you look at it. Most of the energy in the fuel is wasted as heat or leaves the tailpipe unused. So much heat is wasted that we have to use more energy to remove the energy we're wasting. And then we intentionally create drag by putting the radiator up front, which means we need more energy to move the thing in the first place. Then all that energy that does get used to move the thing is wasted as heat when you hit the brake.

Compare that to the Tesla Roadster, for instance. Almost none of the stored energy that's taken to drive the motor is wasted. So little heat is generated that the motor is air cooled (the WhiteStar may be liquid cooled for performance reasons). There are only a handful moving parts in the entire drive train; a rotor, and some reduction gearing. The motor is permanently connected to the wheels; no clutch, no torque converter. Forward, reverse, and neutral are determined by the power you send to the motor. When you want to slow down, you pull energy off the motor and store it back in the "tank".

The V1 fits me perfectly. A great commuter car, fun to drive, and seats two so my wife and I can both enjoy it. The trailer option gives us the ability to take it on long road trips.

But we're approaching early retirement age, and I entertain ideas of us driving around with other couples to the show and other events. I want a big old Lincoln Town Car - but I'd never buy one for all the reasons above. So, the WhiteStar sport sedan fits me perfectly as well.

As far as fun to drive goes - the WhiteStar is speculated to look something like the Fisker Karma (http://image.automobilemag.com/f/auto_shows/2008_detroit/7238175/0710_z+2007_fisker_four-door_plug-in_hybrid_premium_sports_sedan.jpg).

[Mark Tomlinson]

BTW, the C-Net article refers to "REV'. It should read REEV, for Range Extended Electric Vehicle. GM coined the term, but are now saying E-REV, for Extended-Range Electric Vehicle. The term REEV means 'serial hybrid' and is really meant to create a distinction between serial hybrids and parallel hybrids like the Prius, since most people can't tell the difference.

But there's another important distinction. A REEV should have plug-compatible extender options. For instance, if you have a traditional Otto Cycle ICE and generator as a range extender, you might be able to replace it with a more efficient Brayton Cycle turbine generator (StarRotor?) if they come available. Or even fuel cells or more batteries.

[Derwin]

You point out very good reasons to buy a hybrid. I guess I am just not that enthusiastic about spending that much money on a vehicle. Personally, I am not a part of the "green" croud, though I have many friends and family that ARE. My whole reason for being interested in Venture Vehicles is simply because of the "Fun Factor" of driving it. The power system is just a bonus for me! I know....your going to say that I am "shallow"........and I plead "guilty" in this matter!

:o

Derwin

[AZEqualizer]

The Tesla Roadster DriveTrain 1.5 doesn't appear to be an easy fix as it involves replacing the Roadster's entire powertrain. The electric motor is to be changed from an air-cooled motor to a more powerful liquid cooled unit and the power electronics will also be altered to supply the necessary increased current flow to the new motor.

[WarpedOne]

...changed from an air-cooled motor to a more powerful liquid cooled unit...

No.

Batteries and motor stay unchanged. PEM will be able to output more current at lower voltages and motor AIRCOOLING will be improved. No liquid cooled motor for the roadster. That will be in the WhiteStar.

[Mark Tomlinson]

No.

Batteries and motor stay unchanged. PEM will be able to output more current at lower voltages and motor AIRCOOLING will be improved. No liquid cooled motor for the roadster. That will be in the WhiteStar.
Actually I think they are replacing the motor. You are right that is remaining air cooled, but they have to change the venting on it since it will generate more heat.

I think they will be in a real hurry to get the new drive train production ready since they are replacing the drive train - at their expense - in every car they deliver without it. However, they assured customers that they will not be without their car for more than a day.

I hope Ian is following them closely. There are a lot of lessons to be learned from Tesla. Lesson number one - don't put an arrogant perfectionist in as Chairman of the Board.

[WarpedOne]

Lesson number one - don't put an arrogant perfectionist in as Chairman of the Board.

And say NO to 50 million $?;)

[Mark Tomlinson]

And say NO to 50 million $?;)
Tough call, indeed!

But so far I've only heard that Ian secured $6 million, and he seems to be doing fairly well. Of course, building the Venture One is probably less expensive than building the Tesla Roadster. That's probably a cost-of-entry advantage of building a three wheel vehicle with existing technology.

Lesson number two, I think, is to keep the the team small and focused. Tesla grew to hundreds of employees, and then fired 10% and put Tesla Energy Group on hold. Some people say that's the curse of start ups. But Aptera Motors hasn't had such issues. They can still put their entire staff in one photo - and you can clearly make out their smiling faces.

[WarpedOne]

>> They can still put their entire staff in one photo

This is the key.