Conversation with Phil Oseas 4/2/09

[Derwin]

Well, Phil just called me back, and I just got off the phone with him after about a half hour conversation.

The main thrust of the discussion was that Persu is still alive and actively trying to produce this vehicle. Here are the highlights of what I can share...

--Persu has a team of engineers working on the chassis. As many of you may know, they cannot simply use the chassis of the Carver since it is not adequate for American roads. The new chassis they are working on will be customized specifically for the North American market, and this is not an easy task, but they are making progress.

--There is a whole lot going on behind the scenes, but due to investor concerns, along with other issues, they are not in a position to release any details yet. One thing that CAN be shared is that Howard is managing the work being done with lobbyists in select states to make sure the laws will be "friendly" toward this particular vehicle, and others like it. This is in regards to helmet laws, etc.

--The specs given on the site have been verified by propulsion engineers, and are true as of the time they were made posted.

--Persu will qualify for the XPrize. Plain and simple.

***********

OK. That was the main "jist" of our conversation. Phil was incredibly nice on the phone, and wanted to reassure everybody that progress is being made, and that all is well with the project. He went on to emphasis that this is an incredible undertaking, and that something like this takes a whole lot of work, and a lot of time. They are attempting to produce a "production vehicle", and there are many aspects of doing this that most people are simply unaware of. It's quite easy to build a "one-off" vehicle out of your garage. But what Persu is attempting to do is design and then manufacture a vehicle that will be mass-produced and made available at a reasonable price.

One thing that I can say pertaining to the Xprize (and this is MY opinion), is that Persu can easily qualify by simply entering a vehicle with a larger battery, etc. which will meet the requirements. Such a vehicle may cost $35,000 or $40,000 or who knows! But it would qualify and be a "production capable" vehicle. Now, that is NOT what Persu wants to actually bring to market, though. They want (again in MY opinion) to bring a vehicle to market that will fit the budgets of most people. A vehicle that runs around $20,000 to $25,000. So, they would just enter the one vehicle in the XPrize, and then actually go into production with another model with less expensive components. Now, listen, I don't personally know this to be the case, but it makes sense to me. Take it for what it is.... my opinion.

Anyway, I am happy that Phil took the time to speak with me. It sounds like they are very busy behind the scenes, and that engineers are constantly working. But with Ian gone, they just don't have the "front man" communicating with people anymore on a weekly basis. This may be for the better, though, in my opinion.

As a result of this call, my enthusiasm for this product has been cranked up a notch or two. I hope yours has also.

:burning:rubber:

Derwin

[AZEqualizer]

Well done Derwin. Sometimes it is hard for Companies to get their head up to do something than take another breath. It was commendable of you to get some info from them between breaths, while they weren't submerged.

[RAN]

Puleeeeeeeeeeeeaze

The chassis is the first thing you need to build. So, you're telling me that Persu, excuse me, VV, did no work on the chassis? Carver already has a chassis. It may need to be modified for the N. American market, but they're making it sound like they're having to conceptualize and build this thing bolt by bolt from the ground up. That's BS.

No mention of the drivetrain at all. I guess that makes sense in a "Persu" sort of way. No need to worry about that if you don't have a chassis to put it in.

The body will have to be designed from the ground up too; after all, it has to fit on the chassis.

Then they had to conceptualize the whole idea of a three-wheeled tilting man-wide vehicle, since obviously, one has never been built before. What a formidible job ahead of them! (yes that's extreme sarcasm)

Scott's job description, IIRC, was to communicate between the company and Everyone Else. He hasn't done anything to the website, except take down the forum, so that takes up zero percent of his time. He hasn't commmunicated anything to us, so that takes up zero percent of his time. There haven't been any press releases from Persu that I'm aware of in the past 6-7 months, so that takes up zero percent of his time. So WTF has he been doing all this time?

Derwin, you go on swallowing these people's BS all you want. I had to go get a gas mask just to finish this post, the smell was so bad.

At the rate they're going, they'll have an Alpha prototype by about 2014.

Suspension of disbelief is for watching TV shows and movies... not for running a forum.

I'm totally enthusiastic about the vehicle. I just have no faith in the company to bring it to market.

[willk]

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/02/borger.obama/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

[RAN]

the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.

[Derwin]

Derwin, you go on swallowing these people's BS all you want. I had to go get a gas mask just to finish this post, the smell was so bad.

At the rate they're going, they'll have an Alpha prototype by about 2014.

Suspension of disbelief is for watching TV shows and movies... not for running a forum.

I'm totally enthusiastic about the vehicle. I just have no faith in the company to bring it to market.

RAN,

I admire you, and I respect your opinion. But I don't understand where you are getting that I am "swallowing" anything from Persu. I'm simply reporting what I have been told, that's it.

The reason I am more enthusiastic now is simply because I got to hear "from the horses mouth" that they are still actively working on the vehicle, and have no intention of "selling out" or closing their doors (as some have suggested).

As for when they will have an alpha prototype ready....Well, you may be right, RAN! It may not be ready until 2014! I have no clue. I think they'll have something long before then, but we just don't know. They aren't telling us, and that's their prerogative.

I haven't suspended disbelief, either. I just don't take a view one way or the other on the subject. I am incredibly HOPEFUL that they get this thing into production, that's it. What's wrong with that?

You have chosen to take hold the opinion that this company will never bring the Persu Hybrid to market. Well, I have not come to that conclusion yet. Talk to me this time next year, and maybe I'll have another opinion. But for now, I still believe that this company will succeed in developing this vehicle AND bringing it to market. Could I be proven wrong? You bet! But only TIME will tell the story in this case.

Until then, I am cautiously optimistic about the Persu Hybrid coming to market under the leadership of Howard and the Persu team. I guess we'll see, although not soon enough for some!

Derwin

[cobraphx]

The body will have to be designed from the ground up too; after all, it has to fit on the chassis.


Ran, I think you have this backwards. The Persu is a panel on frame design, not a unibody or ladder frame design. From my understanding, the Persu is a birdcage style tubular frame with non-structural plastic composite body panels attached. Until you have the outer body panels designed, you can't design a proper frame (chassis) to support those panels. Unlike a traditional vehicle where the unibody is the chassis with a few extra panels attached for the front clip.

In the Persu, there will be structural members either side of the windshield over the top of the vehicle, there will have to be a structural member at the front and rear of the door, etc... Until you know the width and shape of the door opening, placement, width and contour of the windshield as well as many other things dictated by the body shape and configuration, you can't design the frame to fit the body. The exception for the Persu is the engine pod, the structure of the engine pod panels isn't tied closely to the body panels like it is in the tilting passenger compartment.

Again, this is my understanding of the structural design as mapped out by VV, maybe it has changed and they are throwing out the body design and starting over as you suggest.

[elendel]

Specs vs. X-Prize, as Derwin mentioned:


One thing that I can say pertaining to the Xprize (and this is MY opinion), is that Persu can easily qualify by simply entering a vehicle with a larger battery, etc. which will meet the requirements. Such a vehicle may cost $35,000 or $40,000 or who knows! But it would qualify and be a "production capable" vehicle. Now, that is NOT what Persu wants to actually bring to market, though. They want (again in MY opinion) to bring a vehicle to market that will fit the budgets of most people. A vehicle that runs around $20,000 to $25,000. So, they would just enter the one vehicle in the XPrize, and then actually go into production with another model with less expensive components. Now, listen, I don't personally know this to be the case, but it makes sense to me. Take it for what it is.... my opinion.

Taken one way, it sounds like they are lying. Taken another way it sounds like they are realistic in what they can bring to market vs. what it takes for the x-prize. Also, key wording: They said (according to Derwin) the posted specs were accurate "as of when they were posted." Easily could have changed since to come more in line with x-prize requirements, and they just don't want to publish the new ones.

I doubt any lies were told to Derwin (ok I'm optimistic), they've just realized the danger of telling too much too soon.

[elendel]

Also, forgot to address:


you have to include the electricity used by the vehicle, which is far less efficient than the gasoline engine

Can you back this up? According to all the efficiency numbers I know, converting electricity->motive power is _much_ more efficient than burning fuel for motive power. A quick google search says combustion engines average 25-30% efficiency while electric motors are on the order of 80-90%. That's the whole reason hybrids make any sense at all. The main efficiency losses come from how the electricity is generated in the first place (see: serial hybrid).

[MVRacing]

I am happy to hear they are still alive and trying!! elendel makes a valid point... the specs could easily have been changed.

I am waiting to see what they come out with for the first X Prize race.

[Mark Tomlinson]

Thanks, Derwin.

I want to slam the company for their poor PR. But investment money has dried up recently so I suppose they want to slow their run rate and focus on development.

Regarding the X-Prize; a full list of entrants will be posted on April 8 so lets table that discussion till then.

[AZEqualizer]

I find it ironic how some people can take anything and put a negative spin on it... information ... no information. This or that .... And the truly amazing part is ... They all talk like they are an expert in vehicle design and manufacturing, marketing and PR... plus they act like they know everything that goes on behind the scenes because after all they have done and seen it all. You pick apart anything that is said and your gut reaction is to defame someone because they didn't give you what you want when you want it.

Here is my thrown gauntlet. If you know so much .... Go and do it yourself ... Get the funding and the people together and get this thing to market. Then I will join you in patting yourself on the back.

In the mean time take your negativism and walk away. No one cares about an unsubstantiated personal feelings that drools out of your mouth. The same redundant vitriol is what made Persu throw up their hands, made them shut up and close down their forum. Say something constructive or don't say anything. This site is for enthusiasts not bashers. If you don't like Persu then find something else to talk about - constructively... If you can't make a constructive post ... don't post. Does it make you feel better about yourself to bash someone else's company, their person or their efforts? If so we don't care - I am sure their are other places to vent your inner anger. I for one get tired of reading it.

For those of you with a constructive comment ... bravo I commend you.

[eskeptic]

Also, forgot to address:



Can you back this up? According to all the efficiency numbers I know, converting electricity->motive power is _much_ more efficient than burning fuel for motive power. A quick google search says combustion engines average 25-30% efficiency while electric motors are on the order of 80-90%. That's the whole reason hybrids make any sense at all. The main efficiency losses come from how the electricity is generated in the first place (see: serial hybrid).

see the link in my previous post... that contains the formula for calculating mpge.

[Derwin]

I doubt any lies were told to Derwin (ok I'm optimistic), they've just realized the danger of telling too much too soon.


Absolutely no lies were told to me.

It seems eskeptic is taking this way beyond simple constructive criticism, and has launched directly into inflammatory statements. I already asked him kindly in another thread to please discontinue posting about Persu if all he can do is lash out at them with his negativity. As AZE has reminded us, this IS, after all, a website and club for Persu Hybrid enthusiasts. If he is not one (and it seems obvious that he is not) than he should either talk about something else, or simply leave.

Phil Oseas was nice enough to spend a half hour on the phone with me, and talk with me about what is going on at Persu. He didn't have to do that, but he did. This company is trying to produce a vehicle for "mass production" that has never been produced before. Not an easy task, to say the least.

As for me, I'm still excited about this vehicle, and about this company. Do I wish things would happen a bit faster? Uh, Yeah! But it is what it is. And, guess what? The people at Persu want this to happen faster also! And that's the irony of all of this. They, far more than us, want to get this thing to market.

Anyway, I'll stop there. Needless to say, I am still an enthusiast, and I know when this baby is finally born, and I'm riding it down the road, that I'll look back at these rough times as simple "birth pangs" that we simply had to suffer through.

Now, let's keep it positive, folks. As AZE stated, if you can't say anything positive about Persu, then just move along and discuss something else. thu:mbs:up:22

Thanks.

Derwin

[Jack Willard]

I find it ironic how some people can take anything and put a negative spin on it... information ... no information. This or that .... And the truly amazing part is ... They all talk like they are an expert in vehicle design and manufacturing, marketing and PR... plus they act like they know everything that goes on behind the scenes because after all they have done and seen it all. You pick apart anything that is said and your gut reaction is to defame someone because they didn't give you what you want when you want it.

Here is my thrown gauntlet. If you know so much .... Go and do it yourself ... Get the funding and the people together and get this thing to market. Then I will join you in patting yourself on the back.

In the mean time take your negativism and walk away. No one cares about an unsubstantiated personal feelings that drools out of your mouth. The same redundant vitriol is what made Persu throw up their hands, made them shut up and close down their forum. Say something constructive or don't say anything. This site is for enthusiasts not bashers. If you don't like Persu then find something else to talk about - constructively... If you can't make a constructive post ... don't post. Does it make you feel better about yourself to bash someone else's company, their person or their efforts? If so we don't care - I am sure their are other places to vent your inner anger. I for one get tired of reading it.

For those of you with a constructive comment ... bravo I commend you.


Thank you AZEqualizer! I could not have put that any better myself. Emphasis added by myself.

Derwin, See... told ya... ya needed to call em.

[waltbscott]

Here is my thrown gauntlet. If you know so much .... Go and do it yourself ... Get the funding and the people together and get this thing to market. Then I will join you in patting yourself on the back.

Or, just name the last 3 companies that created a new vehicle and got it to market in the last 5 decades.... There's not that many. DeLorean? Tucker? Tesla? Besides, if it doesn't happen, it's their loss. It's very clear to me that there is a freakin' HUGE demand for something like Persu. Thanks Derwin for relating the conversation. At least they lanced the boil.

[espresso_curve]

Usually I am just a casual observer, however this time I had to chime up. I agree that it is very frustrating to not know what is really going on at Persu. I would like to have a Persu Hybrid ASAP.

Now too be realistic this is a large undertaking, creating a vehicle. How many of us have started a new vehicle company? None, I bet. No matter what business you start. It could be a retail store, a coffee shop (2thumb:up), what ever .... it takes planning. If you do not plan you will have major problem and may fail. I think that if anyone has started a car company and been succesful then they can chime in on how ineffectively Persu is running their business. Until that person shows up on this forum I say we stay as positive as possible and hope for the best.

In the end what have any of us lost if Persu never made it to market. Our time and a great vehicle, that is about it.

My 2 cents.

[MVRacing]

....you are reporting that the company lied to you. My reasoning is below.

Progressive lays out the formula for calculating mpge here

http://autoxprize.typepad.com/axp/2008/01/computing-mpge.html

According to the specs on the website, the Persu Hybrid only gets 50 mpge.

eskeptic, I strongly disagree with your 50 MPGe conclusion. There are not enough specs on the Pursue web site to complete the calculation. Therefore, you made some assumptions to fill in the numbers for your calculation making your conclusion invalid.

If I've missed something, please show it to us.

[drew.arredondo]

I usually don't write anything, but have a couple of things to say. I don't mind an opposing view on the issues brought up on this site. To some they might appear negative, but sometimes a dose of reality may not be a bad thing. That being said, those opinions should be based on the issue and not attacking the personal opinions of someone else. I think RAN may have some valid points but they get lost in sarcasm and they have the feeling they are meant to personally attack other people. I for one hope RAN keeps commenting because I personally learn more from hearing everyones opinion. It is up to me as an individual to take in all the information and decide what I want to believe/speculate is true. Again, I don't mind the so-called negativity, but could do without the personal attacks and sarcasm.

[AZEqualizer]

they get lost in sarcasm and they have the feeling they are meant to personally attack other people. ...Again, I don't mind the so-called negativity, but could do without the personal attacks and sarcasm.

Well said ... and that is probably a better way of expressing what I mean. One can express something constructively without it being an attack. It can be an opposing point of view and that is fine. But when it drops to the level of maligning someone or something, calling names and accusations (personal attacks) then it is just useless detritus.

Opposing points of view are fine - but be adult about expressing your point of view.

[ziggy951]

Or, just name the last 3 companies that created a new vehicle and got it to market in the last 5 decades.... There's not that many. DeLorean? Tucker? Tesla? Besides, if it doesn't happen, it's their loss. It's very clear to me that there is a freakin' HUGE demand for something like Persu. Thanks Derwin for relating the conversation. At least they lanced the boil.


HYUNDAI

Buggatti, Nobel, Seat, Vector, the list goes on. New companies and products are introduced in many markets every year. Some are successful and some arent. Dont think that it isnt happening though.



Z

[rogwild]

...... Until you have the outer body panels designed, you can't design a proper frame (chassis) to support those panels. Unlike a traditional vehicle where the unibody is the chassis with a few extra panels attached for the front clip.

Again, this is my understanding of the structural design as mapped out by VV, maybe it has changed and they are throwing out the body design and starting over as you suggest.

Here is a 'chassis' that VV had ALREADY built (before July 2008), so I don't believe that your 'understanding' of VV's (now PM) automotive design is correct.
Why PM us using a 'redesign' of the Carver chassis to meet US requirements as an 'excuse'; when VV had already built one is 'perplexing'.

[AZEqualizer]

Since Phil Oseas is the EVP of Finance maybe we shouldn't nitpick at his terminology. My take is that they are trying to refine the overall chassis, drive train and suspension, including interior to meet the needs of the North American -clientèle, roads, safety concerns and market, while making the vehicle practical to mass produce with consistent quality and a pleasing style. One has to start at a beginning and then progress from there.

And the chassis you pointed out certainly (from my point of understanding) would not fit the styling of the panels they had shown us they were producing. I go along with cobraphx's point of view.

http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/showthread.php (http://www.flytheroadclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=495)

[MVRacing]

Here is a 'chassis' that VV had ALREADY built (before July 2008), so I don't believe that your 'understanding' of VV's (now PM) automotive design is correct.
Why PM us using a 'redesign' of the Carver chassis to meet US requirements as an 'excuse'; when VV had already built one is 'perplexing'.

That tube frame chassis was just an Alpha for testing... a manufacturer would not use someting like that for production. That is part of the reason why the Carver costs are so high, it's all hand built.
IMHO, it is more likely they would use stamped steel pieces which are then machine welded, similar to a uni body. This would reduce production time & cost.

[rogwild]

Yes, that was the ALPHA chassis to build a 'running prototype', not a production ready vehicle. But since Persu Mobility 'promised' (there is that WORD again) to inform us of any significant progress, are we to assume that they are working on the details of a finished 'BETA' chassis, and skipping a running ALPHA prototype to prove/test their new parallel drive system.

Or that they have already done that, ..... and just did not think that was 'significant progress'?

Just trying to be 'realistic', (without any personal 'attacks') and figure out what progress has been made since last July, other than a NAME CHANGE and 'scraping' the serial hybrid system.

The old VV concept to reduce cost and speed production, was to use molded 'plastic' body panels (like a motorcycle or ATV) that would snap/bolt onto the chassis and frame. Since the basic skin design has been around for over a year, it does not seem like it would be too difficult to make a framework that these panels could attach to. The major FACTOR is to have a running, operating vehicle to attach the bodywork to! THAT I would consider a significant achievement.

Since PM has already missed out on the 'early' 2009 Auto Shows, lets hope that they will have something to SHOW for the 'late' 2009 Auto Shows. Especially if they want to convince anyone (with money to invest) that they are making a viable vehicle. The last 'Showing' of their Foam Mockup, and major press release; was over a YEAR ago.

[MVRacing]

Yes, that was the ALPHA chassis to build a 'running prototype', not a production ready vehicle. But since Persu Mobility 'promised' (there is that WORD again) to inform us of any significant progress, are we to assume that they are working on the details of a finished 'BETA' chassis, and skipping a running ALPHA prototype to prove/test their new parallel drive system.

I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that they would have engineers working on a Beta while they are testing (or have abandoned) the Alpha.

After all, the chassis for the body pod portion of the vehicle is almost completely independant from the power pod.

As far as reporting progress - It seems they are in "close hold" mode. du:n:n:o(

[Derwin]

Yes, that was the ALPHA chassis to build a 'running prototype', not a production ready vehicle. But since Persu Mobility 'promised' (there is that WORD again) to inform us of any significant progress....


I don't think that "promise" is valid any longer. I think that went with Ian, and I don't think they are operating under that same "openness" as they were when Ian was still actively involved in the company and the company forum. And even if Scot or others at PM stated they would "keep us updated" in the past, this is no longer the case.

****The only time we will hear ANYTHING from them, is when they are ready to release it to the public. Phil told me yesterday that he would contact me, and give this club a heads-up about any future release of information and updates. ****

As I already stated, Persu is no longer operating with the mindset to inform the public (and us enthusiasts) of ever step they make, or of any progress being achieved. And, YES, that upsets me a bit, but there's nothing we can do about it. They have chosen to keep things "behind closed doors" for now, and it's that simple.

They may indeed be making significant progress. I don't know. They could also be stalled. I don't know that either. All I know is what Phil and Scot have told me, and that is (if you are of a mind to believe them) that they are "making progress".

I happen to be one that believes what is being told to me. If it's not true, then I guess we'll find out. Either way, it's an exciting time we live in, isn't it? I mean look around, we have new technology being developed and new styled hybrid vehicles being made. It's pretty neat, actually! If Persu succeeds, then we all win. But if they don't, then I'm sure (as it's been pointed out many times!) there will be many other companies with similar vehicles popping up in the coming years.


As far as reporting progress - It seems they are in "close hold" mode.

Yep. That is exactly right. But hopefully that will change in the coming months. I have my fingers crossed!

Derwin

[rogwild]

I don't think that "promise" is valid any longer. I think that went with Ian, and I don't think they are operating under that same "openness" as they were when Ian was still actively involved in the company and the company forum. And even if Scot or others at PM stated they would "keep us updated" in the past, this is no longer the case.
Derwin

Just pointing out what they SAID (after Ian was gone from the scene):


"Now, as we continue to progress we will regularly communicate the milestones on the way to eventual production and sales. You have my personal word on this." = Steve Parry, 08-27-2008

"When I posted on this site for the first time about a month ago I committed to regularly communicate our milestones as we work our way to eventual production and sales." = Steve Parry, 10-02-2008

"I committed to help him keep the club up to speed as the project moves forward." = Scot K. 10-13-2008

I think that shows that the 'current PM administration' DID in fact 'promise'. Are they 'keeping' that promise.......you decide.

[RAN]

Don't confuse them with facts Rog. We all know that Persu can Do No Wrong. If the facts don't fit, we just ignore them.

[Derwin]

Just pointing out what they SAID (after Ian was gone from the scene):


I think that shows that the 'current PM administration' DID in fact 'promise'. Are they 'keeping' that promise.......you decide.


Rog, there is no argument here. You are correct in all that you refer to. But things have changed, and I think that's pretty obvious for all of us to see!

The fact that they "promised" to keep us "updated" is no longer relevant, because they are not doing that. They have since decided against that.

Does that mean that they "lied" to us? C'mon, grow up! Things change. Circumstances change. Be adult about all of this, and accept the fact that they simply decided against making things public at this point in time.

Hopefully this will change in the future. I hope it will. But it is what it is.

And, RAN, nobody is "ignoring" facts. We are simply acting like mature adults and rational people by accepting that thier policy has changed. And we're not "crying" about what they "promised" months ago. I mean, really, if they come out with the damn vehicle, then they come out with it. If they don't, then they don't. What's it with calling the people liars and trashing them at every turn? I just don't get it.


Derwin

[MVRacing]

The formula for figuring out mpge for a vehicle is clearly laid out on XPrize's website:

http://autoxprize.typepad.com/axp/2008/01/computing-mpge.html

If you want to prove me wrong, be my guest. Here is my thrown gauntlet. Take the numbers that Persu has given us, and prove that they can get 100 mpge.

Sigh ... again, I don't see where on the Pursue website you are finding the numbers to complete the formula ... therefore I don't accept your conclusion.
Show me, otherwise pick up your gauntlet and negative attitude and leave as you said you would.

[rogwild]

Rog, there is no argument here. You are correct in all that you refer to. But things have changed, and I think that's pretty obvious for all of us to see!

The fact that they "promised" to keep us "updated" is no longer relevant, because they are not doing that. They have since decided against that.

Does that mean that they "lied" to us? C'mon, grow up! Things change. Circumstances change. Be adult about all of this, and accept the fact that they simply decided against making things public at this point in time.

Hopefully this will change in the future. I hope it will. But it is what it is.

And, RAN, nobody is "ignoring" facts. We are simply acting like mature adults and rational people by accepting that thier policy has changed. And we're not "crying" about what they "promised" months ago. I mean, really, if they come out with the damn vehicle, then they come out with it. If they don't, then they don't. What's it with calling the people liars and trashing them at every turn? I just don't get it.
Derwin

Derwin, PLEASE try to keep within the club policy and don't 'attack' others for their opinions. ie. "C'mon, grow up!" and "Be adult about all of this"!

And I never said they ""lied" to us". I simply posted what the New Management of PM said after Ian was out of the picture. Steve even said; "You have my personal word on this." When he did not come on the Forum to 'amend' or clarify his statement, or state that things changed, and he has a NEW POLICY, I take him at his "personal word". You are the one that brought up 'Liar', NOT me. I have to assume that he either is not keeping his promise, or that NO SIGNIFICANT PROGRESS has been made since his statement. That is why I said...."you decide".

After reading my past posts and yours, I really have to beg to differ with your statement; "We are simply acting like mature adults and rational people".

[Derwin]

Rog, Your correct, and I apologize for the statement about "growing up". That was indeed inappropriate.

And I think you have a couple things mixed-up about what I posted. There were OTHERS in this thread that were throwing around the word "lied", and I was speaking of those. If you read the recent posts in this thread, I'm sure you can notice that. But, hey, sometimes I miss some things as well, so it's no big deal.

And as far as Steve giving you his "personal" word on that subject, well, I think I addressed that already in this thread. The policy has indeed changed. They are no longer going to be giving us "regular updates" like they did when Ian was around. But I have already gone over all of this in my previous posts, and I don't know why your bringing it up again. If you don't believe this, then please feel free to give the nice people at Persu a call.

The bottom line is that we just have to WAIT and see what happens with this company, and when they decide to "share" some information with us. As of now, there is radio silence, and they are not sharing anything with us. They have their reasons, and I pointed out a few in a previous post in this thread.

I think it is "mature" and "rational" to relax and accept the fact that they are no longer "going public" anymore with what they are doing. To harp on them is not, in my humble opinion.

Derwin

[rogwild]

Rog, Your correct, and I apologize for the statement about "growing up". That was indeed inappropriate.

And I think you have a couple things mixed-up about what I posted. There were OTHERS in this thread that were throwing around the word "lied", and I was speaking of those. If you read the recent posts in this thread, I'm sure you can notice that. But, hey, sometimes I miss some things as well, so it's no big deal.

And as far as Steve giving you his "personal" word on that subject, well, I think I addressed that already in this thread. The policy has indeed changed. They are no longer going to be giving us "regular updates" like they did when Ian was around. But I have already gone over all of this in my previous posts, and I don't know why your bringing it up again. If you don't believe this, then please feel free to give the nice people at Persu a call.

The bottom line is that we just have to WAIT and see what happens with this company, and when they decide to "share" some information with us. As of now, there is radio silence, and they are not sharing anything with us. They have their reasons, and I pointed out a few in a previous post in this thread.

I think it is "mature" and "rational" to relax and accept the fact that they are no longer "going public" anymore with what they are doing. To harp on them is not, in my humble opinion.

Derwin
Thanks Derwin, I accept the apology, and I was not trying to single anyone out, just pointing out what has been posted on this forum.

Perhaps I did get "a couple things mixed-up", but since you "QUOTED" my post, I thought that you were addressing things that I said, sorry.

Steve's promise was not to only me; "Steve giving you his "personal" word on that subject" but his comments were to ""all of you interested in Venture Vehicles".....and reposted here:
http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/showthread.php?t=592

Perhaps I missed his post, stating that due to 'whatever' reasons he and PM would be changing their stated policy and he would have to change/withdraw/renege on his 'promise'. I would think a short notice, stating the change would be the courteous and professional thing to do. Otherwise, some people might think that his 'personal word' is not worth very much, or think that he was true to his word,......but no significant progress has been made to publicize. Just thought that those would be two logical and rational conclusions.

Even as late as the end of last year (and perhaps the beginning of this year), there were discussions of progress information and update status being given on a 'promised' Podcast, which again did not happen. Was this 'commitment' made before or after the so called "New Mum Policy" was Officially or Un-Officially imposed by PM?

[Mark Tomlinson]

Well, obviously you didn't look at the link. Obviously, you didn't even look at the formula. There really isn't any disagreeing with me.
I read the post and comments thoroughly. I also read the guidelines and plugged various assumptions into the spreadsheet provided to entrants. And I am going to disagree with you.
(a) Your link is to a blog post from over a year ago when they were discussing what the formula should be, not what it is. That is not the final rule, we can only assume what it might be. Get your facts straight.
(b) As stated before, we do not know what Pursu's actual numbers are. Your assumptions need to be stated.
(c) Next Wednesday (or so), PIAXP will post the complete list of entrants. If Persu is not listed, you were right and I will apologize. If they are listed, I expect you to eat crow.

[Derwin]

Even as late as the end of last year (and perhaps the beginning of this year), there were discussions of progress information and update status being given on a 'promised' Podcast, which again did not happen. Was this 'commitment' made before or after the so called "New Mum Policy" was Officially or Un-Officially imposed by PM?

I was under the impression that there would be "regular updates" given to the club even AFTER they closed down the company forum. As you probably noticed, I even created a little blog talk "radio show" where I was to discuss the updates and interview people on the Persu Team. Well, that didn't go off as planned, obviously, and I have since found out that they aren't going to be letting us "in" on everything on a daily, or even weekly basis.

Here's the bottom line as I see it... Ian was a person that wanted to allow enthusiasts "in" on things that were happening. The company forum was Ian's baby. Remember the video of the mule propulsion unit that Ian posted and then took down immediately? That was 100% Ian. But others in the company did not want to be that "open" with what was going on behind the scenes with this project. Ian is now gone from the company (for the most part), and they no longer have the same mindset as Ian.

When Steve posted what he did, I think he had good intentions, but (as I said earlier) things changed. They seemingly don't want the project to be open every step of the way. They no longer have the forum, and they obviously weren't going to create a "press release" to inform us that they aren't going to be telling us anything!

All I know is that I have been told that they are "busy" working on this project; that several mules have been created; that engineers are working on the chassis, as well as other elements of the vehicle, that Howard is managing a state-by-state program to work with lobbyists in order to have laws changed to prepare for the eventual release of the Persu Hybrid; and many other things are going on. This is what I have been told.

One final thing... I am as upset over the lack of communication as ANYBODY else here. I really am. I wish they would share some more information with us. I mean, really. We are their number one supporters, and we've been with them since the beginning (some of us actively involved in their forum, and some lurkers). To me, I would think they would WANT to be OPEN with everything. But it isn't MY opinion that counts.....it's the people that invested their money in this company, and THEY do not seem to want everything being made public. Is this upsetting? Yep. But there's really nothing we can do about it except to realize that fact, and WAIT. That's it.

So now we all have to just "chill out", sit back, and wait until they are ready to release some information. That's pretty much the point we're at right now.

Derwin

[cobraphx]

If Howard or the Board of Directors made the public statement that they would provide "regular updates", then I'd be on board with the "going back on their word" bandwagon. But Steve or anyone else that promised to keep us updated is not responsible when Steve or the Board of Directors changes policy to prevent updates. Their hands are tied, I suppose they could quit then give updates, but they wouldn't be all that good since they would no longer be insiders.

I personally prefer the new method of communication than the old one. I don't have to read 40 posts a week asking when the next update will be, or how come they missed the date for this or that...

Persu is also trying to mass produce a new vehicle in a very difficult time. How many of the original suppliers they made contact with are still in business? How has motor, battery, power management and cost of goods changed since they began development? At what point do you go to production? The original design was for wheel motors, then not. PM Flightlink went out of business (which supports Ian's decision to drop wheel motors), but maybe a low profile company now has wheel motors that would make economic as well as performance sense for the Persu, if so, do you change back? Suffice it to say, PM has a lot of work ahead (as well as behind), and we'll see a production vehicle eventually, or a a notice somewhere that PM is closing it's doors. I prefer the Former, but accept that the latter may come to pass first. Either way, no amount of 'progress' posts on a web forum from PM will change the outcome.

[denisg]

I have not been on this site for weeks,but what I see is the same old thing. Is the glass half full of half empty. All of this is a waste of time. I bet I'll come back in two months and find nothing has changed.

[Derwin]

I have not been on this site for weeks,but what I see is the same old thing. Is the glass half full of half empty.

Yep. It's been the "same old thing" for several months now. Not a word out of the company other than the fact that they have submitted their official application to the XPrize contest, which most of us knew anyway.


All of this is a waste of time. I bet I'll come back in two months and find nothing has changed.

Unfortunately, You could be right. We may not hear anything new a couple months from now, or even longer. But it only takes a couple seconds to stop in and check it out. Hopefully when you stop in next time, we'll have some exciting news. That's what ALL of us are hoping for.

Derwin

[waltbscott]

HYUNDAI

Buggatti, Nobel, Seat, Vector, the list goes on. New companies and products are introduced in many markets every year. Some are successful and some arent. Dont think that it isnt happening though.



Z
Hyundai became a corporation in the mid '70s and built its first car in 1988 - and yes they've been successful. Buggatti? Are you calling them new? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti

About the others; never heard of 'em. (I'll do a search, though. I'm curious).

[JoeU]

I believe Seat is a Spanish car maker, and Vector is more of a custom, high-end high-perfromance car maker.

[ziggy951]

Hyundai became a corporation in the mid '70s and built its first car in 1988 - and yes they've been successful. Buggatti? Are you calling them new? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugatti

About the others; never heard of 'em. (I'll do a search, though. I'm curious).


I wasnt refering to Bugatti as a new company. Bugatti was a comeback company, markedly after the VW group purchased it. The Veyron is a phenominal exercise in top performance using some of the best known technology to produce one of the, if not thee, highest performing car on the planet. I was really referring to a comment made about the number of new manufacturers creating something new or releasing something into the US market...AND being successfull. And if companies are being disqualified from the conversation from being non-US, then we really only have a few to choose from, and NO they havent done anything revolutionary since.......hmmmm. Even the delorian wasnt revolutionary. It had good looks (opinion) and lots of light weight aluminum. Does that mean the Corvette was revolutionary for using fiber glass? I think not.

Like Hyundai. They really started doing business here only in 1986. They were originally part of the same company as KIA, though I dont know how much, if at all that has changed. They did some joint work with Mitsubishi, Ford, and others before releasing their own vehicles. I think that it was a phenominal play to enter into the US market and become a sucessfull company. They did it on price, not quality, obviously but I think it deserves credit.


Vector was a high performance small niche vehicle just like the Noble, but so is Tesla. I hardly think that would disqualify a company or product.


My point is that remarkable vehicles ARE made every year by companies OTHER than the the well known mainstream manufacturers.



I am just sick of how some people think that if the Big 3 US manufacturers have enough money they will somehow come up with something revolutionary before some other random competitor. They were flooded with cash during the later part of last century. They did NOTHING revolutionary in my opinion. Thats the problem they are facing now, no real new technology that gives them a competitive or comparitave advantage in the market.

Sorry if some of that sounded like a rant. Just got home from school where we had a significant discussion about politics. :)

It felt like this:

dr:ive1):confused::shup:cens:or:ed1r:a:n:t:2:101r: o:f:l:2:2:1:whoohoo:and a little of this: :mad:exploding:



Z

[ppi]

i see no real reason the V1 etc should have not been in the last stages of development other than cash shortfall, it even hurt us when gas prices fell, i mean this product should have been a home run i am sure there is some Billionaire out there that could front a project like this, Safety for U.S. roads??? it's a Motorcycle! improve safety on gen 2 gen 3 just like the automakers just get something out there!
i can bet money if we had a 1/4 of the money already spent there would be prototypes running the roads.

[waltbscott]

Thanks, Ziggy, you introduced me to Seat, the Spanish company. Bugatti and Vector are successful in their own way. I say its easier to design a car for $400K than it is to design a vehicle for under $20K. (I wonder if Tata is getting this much passion on their website?) Both the Corvette and the Avanti were out on the edge for using fiberglass, 1 succeeded and 1 went away. It may have been a rant, but it was a good one! As far as price is concerned, I don't think that it's a bad way to go (targeting wealthy patrons first, like Tesla and Fisker). That's how we got cell phones and personal computers. My point is that what Persu is doing is a little harder (targeting a market with a lower altitude), and they deserve the benefit of the doubt for doing it. And this isn't specifically for you Ziggy, as I don't think you're going negative on them, but for all of us. We all know that there is a market for this vehicle and that SOMEONE will get 'er done.

[Derwin]

I say its easier to design a car for $400K than it is to design a vehicle for under $20K.

Exactly. And that is the main point.


My point is that what Persu is doing is a little harder (targeting a market with a lower altitude), and they deserve the benefit of the doubt for doing it.

Very good point. And that's the attitude that I've had over the past couple of years. But, hey, I also get frustrated along with a lot of others, in the lack of information that's been coming out. I'm still an enthusiasts, though, and I'm just waiting for Persu, or any other company, to come out with a vehicle as good as this concept is.....and at a price I can afford!

Derwin

[ziggy951]

Indeed, and agreed. They need some silicone valley tech geek to put up some dough to get this thing done.



Z

[Vigilanty]

When I was in Spain The Seat was the same as a Fiat. The old guy ( I can't remember his name)that was running the country at that time wouldn't let Fiat import or build Fiats in Spain so Fiat built a factory near Madrid and called it a Seat(Pronuanced-Ce-ott)

[ziggy951]

SEAT and FIAT are not the same. SEAT is owned 100% by Volkswagen Group and has been since 1990 in some form (through Audi for a short stint). Technically they started partial ownership sometime in the mid 1980's.

In the past SEAT did produce rebadged Fiat vehicles but Fiat hasnt had any role in Seat since 1981.

Just an fyi.



Z

[DavidBunin]

the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog.


It's "jumps". Otherwise, your sentence has no 's' in it.

[RAN]

So it is ;)

[PropstotheGast]

Indeed, and agreed. They need some silicone valley tech geek to put up some dough to get this thing done.



Z

I think they need something more serious than that. They already have proof of concept and they already have engineers apparently trying to make it crashworthy, so the hold up has to be the severe amount of money it takes to launch a commercial vehicle.

I dont know what it runs now a days but I recall it was huge news in 1993 or so that Chrysler had managed to spend only 300 million bringing the neon to market.

In todays market trying to bring a tech heavy product like the persu to market might be a billion dollar enterprise.

And lets face it, there is no one out there right now with a billion to throw at anything.

But in the end it wont matter, there are only two questions I want answered about the final product, where can I buy one and will there be a gasoline only high performance model?

And thanks for reading my first post.

[wireman]

But in the end it wont matter, there are only two questions I want answered about the final product, where can I buy one and will there be a gasoline only high performance model?

And thanks for reading my first post.

Welcome to the club, my friend! Sadly, there will NOT be a ICE HPM from Persu Mobility. The licence they recieved from Carver (now defunct), which is still being held by their associated engineering company, limits production in the U.S. to all electric/ hybrid electric models. Under this licence they can't even sell a kit (without a motor) that has the patented DVC leaning tech onboard. Carver was hoping to do it's own version in the U.S., so they wouldn't allow a simple re-body of their original ICE design.

[Gunner]

Thanks Derwin, I'm glad you still can "peek behind the curtain" from time to time. It really helps me to keep hanging on. I really want one of these vehicles...if they don't screw it up or put it out of my price range. Thanks again, and good job.

[rickb]

Welcome to the club, my friend! Sadly, there will NOT be a ICE HPM from Persu Mobility. The licence they recieved from Carver (now defunct), which is still being held by their associated engineering company, limits production in the U.S. to all electric/ hybrid electric models. Under this licence they can't even sell a kit (without a motor) that has the patented DVC leaning tech onboard. Carver was hoping to do it's own version in the U.S., so they wouldn't allow a simple re-body of their original ICE design.

Isn't Carver out of business, which means they couldn't sell enough ICE Carvers to be profitable let alone think about a US Carver market. Maybe now they would license Persu Mobility to maintain silence about manufacturing an ICE version along with their Hybrid model then it will take them twice as long to not get a vehicle to market (sarcasm). Is there any word that Persu Mobility is still a viable company or are we just kidding ourselves with false hope.

[rickb]

PropstotheGast.......welcome to the club! The Persu Hybrid's 0-60 and top speed will be adaquate. The fly the road experience will simulate high performance. Excuse my sarcasm in post #54............I'm old and impatient having followed this vehicle for over two years.

[MVRacing]

But in the end it wont matter, there are only two questions I want answered about the final product, where can I buy one and will there be a gasoline only high performance model?

Hi ya Gast,

When Ian was still head of the company (Venture Vehicles) he was looking to do a gas only race version for a "spec" type race series. So, who knows what "clauses" are in the agreement with Carver...or where that agreement now stands.

wel;co;m;e101))

[rickb]

Keep in mind that an EV Persu or Persu Hybrid could be engineered to be high performance. Peraves engineers have managed to maintain high performance status on their Etracer (the pure electric version of the MonoTracer) claiming 0-60 in under 6 seconds with top speeds of 150mph. If I'm not mistaken hub electric motors can generate 100hp or more per wheel slammin you back in the seat without guzzling a drop of gas.

[PropstotheGast]

Electric is great for performance within some limited guidelines,( like dont venture too far from home), but in my humble opinion nothing replaces the thrill of tweaking the throttle and hearing an insane howl from behind your head just before you launch.

When I first heard about the Persu my only thought on gasoline engines was that it was perfect for a rotary, of course there is zero chance of that.

If it has to be a hybrid then I would prefer a micro size turbo diesel charging the batteries for a direct electric motor in the wheel hub set up. Which apparently also wont happen, so i probably know very little about engineering a car......:)

[wireman]

Hey Props! It's not that you know little, most mechanical engineering is not rocket science, but a general feel for the way things work, and (my failing) math skill. The main thing to know in creating a machine is that it CAN be done, based on former art or modifying a new concept to match your needs.

It seems likely that the guys at Revolution Motors have included a micro turbine in the DAGNE design. Very small, (fits just under/ back of the passenger seat) 15kW output, driving the propulsion batteries in series. It has been commonly agreed by the club that the series hybrid is, and will be for some while, the best method to move an electric vehicle. It has been proven over millions of miles in today's trains, but is still somewhat expensive, because you need a honking big pack to get any kind of decent performance out of even a commuter like the Persu. This is why Persu (so we are led to believe) has been without a production model to show for so long, because they went back on series hybrid and were re-designing for gas assist. MUSIC comes UP: "One day, Someday soon". Battery tech WILL get to the point where we will have performance and range in an all electric, affordable vehicle! KUM-BY-YAH!

[rickb]

Electric is great for performance within some limited guidelines,( like dont venture too far from home), but in my humble opinion nothing replaces the thrill of tweaking the throttle and hearing an insane howl from behind your head just before you launch.

When I first heard about the Persu my only thought on gasoline engines was that it was perfect for a rotary, of course there is zero chance of that.

If it has to be a hybrid then I would prefer a micro size turbo diesel charging the batteries for a direct electric motor in the wheel hub set up. Which apparently also wont happen, so i probably know very little about engineering a car......:)
My old school mentality likes the high pitched sound of a high performance engine or the rumble of a Harley V-Twin, however, I would settle for a quiet 3.5 second 0-60mph while listening to my Easy Rider Soundtrack.

I'm afraid the hybrid configuration in the Persu Hybrid production prototype will sound suspiciously like a chainsaw when we finally get to see and hear it. But that won't matter so long as it tilts. It will be music to my ears.:burning:rubber:

[PropstotheGast]

Hey Props! It's not that you know little, most mechanical engineering is not rocket science, but a general feel for the way things work, and (my failing) math skill. The main thing to know in creating a machine is that it CAN be done, based on former art or modifying a new concept to match your needs.

It seems likely that the guys at Revolution Motors have included a micro turbine in the DAGNE design. Very small, (fits just under/ back of the passenger seat) 15kW output, driving the propulsion batteries in series. It has been commonly agreed by the club that the series hybrid is, and will be for some while, the best method to move an electric vehicle. It has been proven over millions of miles in today's trains, but is still somewhat expensive, because you need a honking big pack to get any kind of decent performance out of even a commuter like the Persu. This is why Persu (so we are led to believe) has been without a production model to show for so long, because they went back on series hybrid and were re-designing for gas assist. MUSIC comes UP: "One day, Someday soon". Battery tech WILL get to the point where we will have performance and range in an all electric, affordable vehicle! KUM-BY-YAH!

So heres my question then, given that a parallel hybrid adds weight complexity and cost, wouldn't a petrol first generation be a better idea. I am conceding that Persu signed away that option with Carver, but still, since Carver is all but gone, there is hope that someone will license the dynamic tilt and build a gasoline powered first gen even if it isnt under the original contract that Persu has.

I think many otherwise great transportation ideas are killed by the notion that they have to solve every problem. I dont see why the Persu has to be both a good urban commuter and good for the environment at the same time. If the devotion to a parallel hybrid drive is threatening to kill the entire vehicle, then ditch it.

There is always time for a Persu mark 2 with a hybrid.

Just my 2 cents.

[Derwin]

I dont see why the Persu has to be both a good urban commuter and good for the environment at the same time. If the devotion to a parallel hybrid drive is threatening to kill the entire vehicle, then ditch it.

There is always time for a Persu mark 2 with a hybrid.

Just my 2 cents.


agr:1 Amen to that!

Derwin

[wireman]

2thumb:up DOUBLE AMEN TO THAT!
Again, if I may speak for the club, and correct me guys if I'm wrong! Most of us are looking for that great little commuter with FUN factor, and a decent MPG. It would have been great if Persu could have simply re-bodied Carvers ICE to remove that idiotic looking front end and made it possible to mass manufacture the vehicle, thereby bringing the price down to us ordinary mortals! The Eco friendly aspect would have simply been icing on the cake for us!

I, myself, am working on a series electric hybrid, even though the initial cost to build it one-off will be high. In the end it will be worth it, because the cost to run/ maintain the vehicle over it's operational lifetime will be far less than a ICE.

[rickb]

2thumb:up DOUBLE AMEN TO THAT!
Again, if I may speak for the club, and correct me guys if I'm wrong! Most of us are looking for that great little commuter with FUN factor, and a decent MPG. It would have been great if Persu could have simply re-bodied Carvers ICE to remove that idiotic looking front end and made it possible to mass manufacture the vehicle, thereby bringing the price down to us ordinary mortals! The Eco friendly aspect would have simply been icing on the cake for us!

I, myself, am working on a series electric hybrid, even though the initial cost to build it one-off will be high. In the end it will be worth it, because the cost to run/ maintain the vehicle over it's operational lifetime will be far less than a ICE.

The Persu Hybrid is a rembodied Carver/ Phiaro which makes me wonder why it is taking so long. I really doubt that we can blame the hybrid drive system. It may increase the cost slightly, but the under $25,000 MSRP is still well below the cost of the Carver even it if were manufactured in the USA.

I am interested in seeing sketches of your One-Of to compare it to BMW's Simple Concept (My favorite design). I also prefer the series electric concept.

[wireman]

Yeah RickB, I'd like to see my design completed too! It does indeed have a lot of similarity to the Simple (bodywise), but was not meant to be a tilt machine. One thing I have discovered in my efforts is a great respect for the designer(s) of that incredibly EDGY body! One would think that flat planes and angles would be easy to produce, after all, the foam/ fiberglass method of one-off construction starts out with flat sheets anyway. NOT SO! Without the benefit of trig (at which I am totaly deficient) the meet points and compound angles required to produce a decent shape are an absolute nightmare! It is much easier to gently bend the foam panels into curves following the bulkhead lines, but then it wouldn't match my vision of a roadable version of the F117 Nighthawk with a bit of F22 Raptor thrown in for kicks. If I do manage this feat, I will certainly stick it up here for comment/ criticism, but I'm not holding my breath!

[wireman]

Hey rB, an addendum to my post above. I was googlin' something else and happened to run across this trike at; http://www.bornrich.org/entry/live-in-the-fast-lane-with-the sst-trike/ . This is a good example of what not to do! He started out with a decent try at the nose, then went totally flat/ boxlike for the simulated wing, obviously to avoid doing compound angles. Result: One gawdawful looking trike. As I said, doing design with facets aint easy! Not if you want it to look cool!

[Derwin]

Hey rB, an addendum to my post above. I was googlin' something else and happened to run across this trike at; http://www.bornrich.org/entry/live-in-the-fast-lane-with-the sst-trike/ .


I tried your link, but it must be broke.

Do you have another link for this?

Derwin

[Mike kZ]

This quad is cool:
There is an article of this quad in the February 2010 Hot Rod magazine

http://www.instablogsimages.com/images/2009/12/11/brimstone_quadracycle-4_Hk7YM_65.jpg

http://www.bornrich.org/entry/the-brimstone-quadracycle-is-a-beast-packed-machine/

[pharuan]

Trike (http://www.bornrich.org/entry/live-in-the-ultra-fast-lane-with-the-sst-trike/)

[Derwin]

Thanks for posting the link.

Umm. Hmm. What do I say about this? I really should hold back my thoughts. :shup:

But, ah, what the heck.... This thing has got to be the most awful looking design of ANY vehicle that I've EVER seen in my entire life. No joke. And on top of that, it doesn't even lean!

Ok. I've said my piece.

[rickb]

Hey rB, an addendum to my post above. I was googlin' something else and happened to run across this trike at; http://www.bornrich.org/entry/live-in-the-fast-lane-with-the sst-trike/ . This is a good example of what not to do! He started out with a decent try at the nose, then went totally flat/ boxlike for the simulated wing, obviously to avoid doing compound angles. Result: One gawdawful looking trike. As I said, doing design with facets aint easy! Not if you want it to look cool!

Gawdawful looking indeed! Tilting wouldn't help this trike, but it was somebody's vision and you have to give them some credit.....they got it built.

[wireman]

See Derwin, told ya so! BTW I appreciate the effort you made to find that pic. Sorry about the URL.

rB,agr:1that whoever did it deserves kudo's for making it a reality. It's more than we've gotten from Persu so far, but the thing seriously assaults my eyes! And the worst part is that, with a bit more time and effort, this could have been at least decent looking.

[Derwin]

Gawdawful looking indeed! Tilting wouldn't help this trike, but it was somebody's vision and you have to give them some credit.....they got it built.

That's true. Somebody put their own sweat and tears into creating it, so my hat is indeed off to them for at least putting forth the effort. Actually, if I accomplished something like that, I would be proud of it.

Derwin

[rickb]

It just goes to show that design is very personal. Generally speaking designers shouldn't build and builders shouldn't design. These are two very different talents. There has always been love/hate comments on many of the concept vehicles discussed here. What I do know is that we all love the overall design of the Persu Hybrid that evolved from the early design input/polling that went on between Venture Vehicles and the FTRC focus group.

[erric288]

The designers and builders must always be in constant communication in order to get the highest quality product once the building of the vehicle begins. This will be very important for Persu especially since their vehicle technologies are ,for the most part, new to mass production.

[rickb]

The designers and builders must always be in constant communication in order to get the highest quality product once the building of the vehicle begins. This will be very important for Persu especially since their vehicle technologies are ,for the most part, new to mass production.
You are right on......and my understanding is that Persu contracted with California based BMW Design Works which means the interior and exterior design is very appealing to the masses as well as being a functional engineering masterpiece..........."The ultimate fly the road driving machine" created by a team of auto designers and engineers.

[rickb]

A new years resolution idea for the Persu Mobility management team: We promise to provide monthly progress updates on the FTRC Website. A brief comment summarizing the year end status of the Persu Hybrid would make for great Christmas Tidings and Good Will to at least one FTRC member.

[pharuan]

That'd be good rickb, but if the resolution is made at new years, then we'd only get that progress update at the end of next year. But then again, new years resolutions are made to be broken.

[Mike kZ]

Thanks for posting the link.

Umm. Hmm. What do I say about this? I really should hold back my thoughts. :shup:

But, ah, what the heck.... This thing has got to be the most awful looking design of ANY vehicle that I've EVER seen in my entire life. No joke. And on top of that, it doesn't even lean!

Ok. I've said my piece.

It kind of looks like the Pink Panther mobile

http://flytheroadclub.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=964&d=1260540464

http://www.bigscreencarhire.com/Pink%20Panther%20Car_files/pink_panther_limo.jpg

[Derwin]

It kind of looks like the Pink Panther mobile

OK. Now we have a NEW candidate! dr:ive1)

[rickb]

OK. Now we have a NEW candidate! dr:ive1)
Ooooooh yaaaaa!......................and that would be the new candidate for the ultimate datemobile. Back in my day it was the Nash Rambler.

[Derwin]

Ooooooh yaaaaa!......................and that would be the new candidate for the ultimate datemobile. Back in my day it was the Nash Rambler.

Yep. That sucker looks like the perfect "ShagMobile" for Austin Powers! LOL! :whoohoo:

[rickb]

Hey Derwin................you mentioned a Persu reorginization in your Happy New Years Post. Did you verify the recent reorg rumor post or are you assuming a reorg? Is it a continuation of the reorg from Venture Vehicles to Persu Mobility or was that reorg accomplished and now they are involved in a reorg of the reorg? I'm hoping you will verify information sometime after your New Years contact with Persu's Director of Public Reations. I'm hoping for accurate information regarding Peru's dead or alive status to justify continued interest in this vehicle into 2010. It has been a long and frustrating process.

[Derwin]

Hey Derwin................you mentioned a Persu reorginization in your Happy New Years Post. Did you verify the recent reorg rumor post or are you assuming a reorg? Is it a continuation of the reorg from Venture Vehicles to Persu Mobility or was that reorg accomplished and now they are involved in a reorg of the reorg?


I was simply referring to the reorganization that we all already know about. But I'll be speaking (or trying to!) with the people at Persu Mobility after the holidays, and I'll report back everything and anything that I find out.

Derwin

[wireman]

Thanks, Derwin! You da' man!
Hope all of you here at FTRC came through the holidays well, happy, and still hopeful that we will fly the road one day (reletively) soon.

[rickb]

Thanks Derwin..............I'm looking forward to some positive news regarding Persu or any news that will put my thoughts and periodic doubts to rest.