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View Full Version : Automakers Reportedly Still Unable to Produce Profitable Hybrid and Plug-In Cars



AZEqualizer
11-25-2008, 06:46 PM
http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/Green-Cars-Dollar-Sign-275x.jpg
Green Car Advisor (http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2008/11/automakers-reportedly-still-unable-to-produce-profitable-hybrid-and-plug-in-cars.html) has posted this interesting article:

Car manufacturers still haven't figured out how to produce hybrid and plug-in vehicles cheaply enough to make money on them. After a decade of relative success with its hybrid Prius, Toyota has sold about a million of the cars and is still widely believed by analysts to be losing money on each one sold. General Motors has touted plans for a plug-in hybrid vehicle called the Volt, but the costly battery will prevent it from turning a profit on the vehicle for several years, at least.

"In 10 years are they (at GM) going to solve the technological problems with respect to the Volt? Sure," Maryann Keller, an automotive analyst and author of a book on GM, told the Post. "But are they going to be able to stake their survival, which is really more of a now to five-year proposition, on it? I'd say they can't. They have to stake their future on Malibus, the Chevy Cruze, and much more conventional technologies."
U.S. automakers faced a barrage of demands last week that they provide evidence and assurance that they would use federal bailout money to transform their companies to produce automobiles of the future, using advanced technologies and featuring hybrid or plug-in vehicles. And in his "60 Minutes" interview on Nov. 16, Obama said that before backing a big loan package he wanted to be sure "that we are creating a bridge loan to somewhere as opposed to a bridge loan to nowhere."

But there's no guarantee that the new business model would be any more viable than the current one. Automobile experts estimate that the battery in a plug-in vehicle could add at least $8,000 to the cost of a car, maybe considerably more. Most Americans will be unwilling to pay the extra price, especially if gasoline prices languish around $2 a gallon.

Womack warned that it takes time to design a new vehicle, change assembly lines and then turn a new product into a profitable one. "For anything that's really new it's still about four years," he told the Post. "To get your money back, you need to make that product for eight to 10 years with only cosmetic changes."

Hoosier
11-29-2008, 08:56 AM
The hurdles that must be cleared...

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=720175&topart=newcarresearch

That said, the Fiskar Quantum Hybrid (pic included in the article) is one awesome looking ride. Plus, there's a link to a pretty good advanced look at the Chevy Volt.

Mark Tomlinson
11-29-2008, 08:23 PM
The hurdles that must be cleared...

http://editorial.autos.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=720175&topart=newcarresearch

That said, the Fiskar Quantum Hybrid (pic included in the article) is one awesome looking ride. Plus, there's a link to a pretty good advanced look at the Chevy Volt.
That is probably the most lopsided poorly researched article I have read about EVs recently. For instance, his comments about Tesla only having delivered 60 vehicles completely ignores that they ramped up from 2 a week to a current 10 (or 12) a week, and continue to ramp up from there - as they planned. Then to say that all have the original transmission is a flat out lie - the first 40 do (as expected) and they are being replaced free of charge starting last week. Even indicating that Tesla should have delivered the 1200 ordered by now is ridiculous because Tesla always intends to have a 12 to 18 month waiting list for the Roadster.

And there is no car named the "Fisker Quantum Hybrid". The car is the Fisker Karma (http://www.fiskerautomotive.com/vehicles/features/) and the drive train is from a company named Quantum Fuel Systems Technologies Worldwide. The Fisker Quantum Hybrid is a platform that the Karma is built on. (And, yes, the Karma is sweet).

I had to stop reading the article about there, although I did skip ahead to skim what he wrote about the Chevy Volt. I noticed he mentioned that if GM can keep the price below $40,000, it could save the company. First, Bob Lutz is on record saying they will loose money on every vehicle at $40,000. And second, would you spend $40,000 for an electric Malibu? I know it's a matter of opinion, but I don't see the Volt saving GM.

danbucks
12-01-2008, 07:23 PM
He's probably changed his tune a little since, but this applies to hybrids as well (although hybrids have far larger market):

“Are electric cars going to make a difference any time soon? No. Are they going to be material? No. If something costs $2,000 more, nobody buys it.” He said these cars are likely to get a one percentage point market penetration. “It’s not going to be reach the average person in Mississippi. That’s what I call my Mississippi test.”

-Vinod Khosla (sept, 2007)

"nobody" is a strong statement, but many won't even bother to look at tax credits etc. There's sticker price - and that's it.

Mark Tomlinson
12-01-2008, 08:47 PM
While I'm still ranting about that poorly researched and biased article, I'd like to point you to the sidebar caption on the Fisker.

Initial deliveries of the 2010 Fisker Quantum Hybrid were supposed to arrive in the fourth quarter of 2009. To our knowledge none have been delivered.Probably none have been delivered yet because it's only the fourth quarter of 2008!

AZEqualizer
12-03-2008, 09:24 AM
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2008/01/img_1207.jpgWhile
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autobloggreen.com/media/2008/12/2009-fisker-karma_100170420_l.jpg

This may be drifting off target I thought I would post a couple of pics of the Fisker Karma hybrid live revealed at the 2008 Detroit Auto Show on AutoBloggreen. (http://www.autobloggreen.com/photos/detroit-2008-fisker-hybrid-live-reveal/)